6 ms·

China weaponizes sand dredgers in pressuring Taiwan

56 points by tomohawk 6y ago

totalZero 6y ago
> The fears of a Chinese invasion are palpable on Nangan. I wonder how likely this is. It would be an absolute disaster for the Western world if China were to invade Taiwan. Prices for many electronics including computers and mobile phones would skyrocket, and stock markets would crash. AAPL alone is 7% of the S&P 500.
- dannyeei 6y ago
  Aren’t China incentivised to keep running these businesses? Why the doomsday sentiment?
  - cltsang 6y ago
    They are incentivized to avoid confrontation with the west. But the question is whether they will face confrontations. Right after the Biden administration has taken over, we immediately see Myanmar Coup, Russian persecution of oppositions, China sailing to Japan's Senkaku Islands, not to mention China's constant provocation in Taiwan's airspace. They are testing the limit the Biden administration. And if it's like the Obama era, the USA won't react in any meaningful manner. The EU, which looks up to the US, can't do much.
  - rangibaby 6y ago
    Taiwan’s military is strong enough that PRC’s only route to “winning” in a war is to turn the island into a smoldering crater
    - bobthepanda 6y ago
      Also, the island is so densely populated. It would be hard to see how an invasion would somehow avoid hitting these factories. Strictly trying to avoid hitting them would make them fairly obvious safe harbors from which to launch guerrilla operations.
Context_free 6y ago
> A few kilometers away, the Chinese coast was faintly visible from Lin’s boat. He was on the lookout for Chinese sand-dredging ships encroaching on waters controlled by Taiwan. Right. The mainland is less than 6 miles from Matsu. Taiwan is over 100 miles away. This was something Nixon and Kennedy were arguing about on television in 1960. Taiwan decided it wants control of these islands right up against the mainland, and has been going through contortions to control the coastal zone around them for 70 years. Control which China has never recognized (well Taiwan's position is that the mainland belongs to it too).
- aaron695 6y ago
  Video: https://youtu.be/OHjWb5XsAMI?t=301 https://youtu.be/OHjWb5XsAMI?t=301 (Nixon was considered the winner on this point)
- fractallyte 6y ago
  Maybe the inhabitants of those islands should have some say in their future? “We don’t want to be ruled by mainland China,” he said. “We have freedom, which is limited over there.” Edit: and to the person who just downvoted this, I invite you to explain why this statement is wrong? Downvotes are easy, justifying yourself - in front of a critical audience - is another story...
  - yorwba 6y ago
    The inhabitants of those islands having a say in their own future is one thing. A Chinese sand dredger risking the boat getting impounded right outside their home port if they veer into waters patrolled by the Taiwanese coast guard is another. The article frames it as a deliberate attack, but it's not like the Chinese captains want to lose their source of income.
- MikeUt 6y ago
  > The mainland is less than 6 miles from Matsu. Taiwan is over 100 miles away. Since Matsu is part of Taiwan, that would make Taiwan zero miles away. Perhaps you meant Taipei, the capital?
fractallyte 6y ago
And, since it vanished from the main pages of HN, another reminder of this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55794071 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55794071 ['Their goal is to destroy everyone': Uighur camp detainees allege systematic rape] When one of the most powerful nations on Earth is in the process of committing genocide using such horrific methods, intimidating its neighbors, imposing ever-stricter control over its vast population, and pushing for dominance in a multitude of technologies - "History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes"

56 points by tomohawk 6y ago

> The fears of a Chinese invasion are palpable on Nangan. I wonder how likely this is. It would be an absolute disaster for the Western world if China were to invade Taiwan. Prices for many electronics including computers and mobile phones would skyrocket, and stock markets would crash. AAPL alone is 7% of the S&P 500.

dannyeei 6y ago
Aren’t China incentivised to keep running these businesses? Why the doomsday sentiment?
- cltsang 6y ago
  They are incentivized to avoid confrontation with the west. But the question is whether they will face confrontations. Right after the Biden administration has taken over, we immediately see Myanmar Coup, Russian persecution of oppositions, China sailing to Japan's Senkaku Islands, not to mention China's constant provocation in Taiwan's airspace. They are testing the limit the Biden administration. And if it's like the Obama era, the USA won't react in any meaningful manner. The EU, which looks up to the US, can't do much.
- rangibaby 6y ago
  Taiwan’s military is strong enough that PRC’s only route to “winning” in a war is to turn the island into a smoldering crater
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    Also, the island is so densely populated. It would be hard to see how an invasion would somehow avoid hitting these factories. Strictly trying to avoid hitting them would make them fairly obvious safe harbors from which to launch guerrilla operations.

Context_free 6y ago

> A few kilometers away, the Chinese coast was faintly visible from Lin’s boat. He was on the lookout for Chinese sand-dredging ships encroaching on waters controlled by Taiwan. Right. The mainland is less than 6 miles from Matsu. Taiwan is over 100 miles away. This was something Nixon and Kennedy were arguing about on television in 1960. Taiwan decided it wants control of these islands right up against the mainland, and has been going through contortions to control the coastal zone around them for 70 years. Control which China has never recognized (well Taiwan's position is that the mainland belongs to it too).

aaron695 6y ago
Video: https://youtu.be/OHjWb5XsAMI?t=301 https://youtu.be/OHjWb5XsAMI?t=301 (Nixon was considered the winner on this point)
fractallyte 6y ago
Maybe the inhabitants of those islands should have some say in their future? “We don’t want to be ruled by mainland China,” he said. “We have freedom, which is limited over there.” Edit: and to the person who just downvoted this, I invite you to explain why this statement is wrong? Downvotes are easy, justifying yourself - in front of a critical audience - is another story...
- yorwba 6y ago
  The inhabitants of those islands having a say in their own future is one thing. A Chinese sand dredger risking the boat getting impounded right outside their home port if they veer into waters patrolled by the Taiwanese coast guard is another. The article frames it as a deliberate attack, but it's not like the Chinese captains want to lose their source of income.
MikeUt 6y ago
> The mainland is less than 6 miles from Matsu. Taiwan is over 100 miles away. Since Matsu is part of Taiwan, that would make Taiwan zero miles away. Perhaps you meant Taipei, the capital?

fractallyte 6y ago

And, since it vanished from the main pages of HN, another reminder of this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55794071 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55794071 ['Their goal is to destroy everyone': Uighur camp detainees allege systematic rape] When one of the most powerful nations on Earth is in the process of committing genocide using such horrific methods, intimidating its neighbors, imposing ever-stricter control over its vast population, and pushing for dominance in a multitude of technologies - "History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes"