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Yea that’s “the joke”. It’s just like “sharks are harmless, more people die of vending machine accidents than shark attacks”.... people live in very close proxi

Yea that’s “the joke”. It’s just like “sharks are harmless, more people die of vending machine accidents than shark attacks”.... people live in very close proximity to vending machines, not sharks. Same for the “most accidents happen within 25 miles of home”, yes, because you are very commonly less than 25 miles from home.

maxerickson 6y ago
It's not particularly presented as a joke in the Times piece (or above). And I'm perhaps being tedious, but safety is a topic where it pays to think and state things clearly. So for instance, the instructor, rather than joking (if that is what they are doing), should state that the education often does not result in a reduction of accidents. If it is actually the case that taking the course increases accidents, they should work to revise the material.
- hluska 6y ago
  I’m not sure if this will make you feel better but I belong to the Alpine Club of Canada and have taken some wilderness survival, risk management and first aid courses through the club. Consequently, I could just about hear how the instructor say that as I’ve been told the same thing many times. It’s kind of like the ‘joke’ that goes: “How do you become the best climber in the world? Become the second best and wait for the best to die.” It isn’t funny because if you hang out at the ACC clubhouse and our official pub in Canmore often enough, you will meet some of the best climbers on earth. And there is no feeling quite like finding out that an amazing climber you had pints with the year before was swept off a mountain and died. It’s not really a joke. It’s closer to a dark sense of near humour. But if you’re experienced enough outside to gain from more advanced survival courses, you know how dangerous your hobby is and you’re presumably intelligent enough to know that the only way to eliminate risk is to stay in town. Most of the people in my courses read incident reports as avidly as I do. We all know the commonalities and know that outdoor enthusiasts like us match the profile of the ‘typical victim’. I don’t know if that helps because it’s a very common mindset. It’s not really a joke just more an admission that we go places that are incredibly efficient at killing us.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    And I'm perhaps being tedious was my attempt to avoid the grating tone you've replied with. And I'll still repeat myself. Someone leading a safety activity should avoid making misleading statements, regardless of whether they are serious, humorous, darkly humorous, or whatever. Having read the paper a bit, it seems likely that people choosing to take a safety class are at a point in their activities where the familiarity and consistency heuristics are a bigger pitfall than an awareness of dangerous conditions. Of course I don't know this, my first comment is posed a question for a reason.
    - hluska 6y ago
      Why do you think the statements are misleading? They are fact. Heck, my wilderness survival course increased my risk of dying outside. That’s true both because of inherent risk in what we do and our entire culture. It’s dark but it isn’t misleading. Ultimately, good outdoor leaders equip you with both skill and respect for the outdoors. Knowledge comes with responsibility.

maxerickson 6y ago

It's not particularly presented as a joke in the Times piece (or above). And I'm perhaps being tedious, but safety is a topic where it pays to think and state things clearly. So for instance, the instructor, rather than joking (if that is what they are doing), should state that the education often does not result in a reduction of accidents. If it is actually the case that taking the course increases accidents, they should work to revise the material.

hluska 6y ago
I’m not sure if this will make you feel better but I belong to the Alpine Club of Canada and have taken some wilderness survival, risk management and first aid courses through the club. Consequently, I could just about hear how the instructor say that as I’ve been told the same thing many times. It’s kind of like the ‘joke’ that goes: “How do you become the best climber in the world? Become the second best and wait for the best to die.” It isn’t funny because if you hang out at the ACC clubhouse and our official pub in Canmore often enough, you will meet some of the best climbers on earth. And there is no feeling quite like finding out that an amazing climber you had pints with the year before was swept off a mountain and died. It’s not really a joke. It’s closer to a dark sense of near humour. But if you’re experienced enough outside to gain from more advanced survival courses, you know how dangerous your hobby is and you’re presumably intelligent enough to know that the only way to eliminate risk is to stay in town. Most of the people in my courses read incident reports as avidly as I do. We all know the commonalities and know that outdoor enthusiasts like us match the profile of the ‘typical victim’. I don’t know if that helps because it’s a very common mindset. It’s not really a joke just more an admission that we go places that are incredibly efficient at killing us.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  And I'm perhaps being tedious was my attempt to avoid the grating tone you've replied with. And I'll still repeat myself. Someone leading a safety activity should avoid making misleading statements, regardless of whether they are serious, humorous, darkly humorous, or whatever. Having read the paper a bit, it seems likely that people choosing to take a safety class are at a point in their activities where the familiarity and consistency heuristics are a bigger pitfall than an awareness of dangerous conditions. Of course I don't know this, my first comment is posed a question for a reason.
  - hluska 6y ago
    Why do you think the statements are misleading? They are fact. Heck, my wilderness survival course increased my risk of dying outside. That’s true both because of inherent risk in what we do and our entire culture. It’s dark but it isn’t misleading. Ultimately, good outdoor leaders equip you with both skill and respect for the outdoors. Knowledge comes with responsibility.