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What I find disgraceful about avalanche incidents is the risk that the dead put onto the people charged with coming in to clean up the mess they made. You want

What I find disgraceful about avalanche incidents is the risk that the dead put onto the people charged with coming in to clean up the mess they made. You want to kill yourself? Fine, go jump off a cruise ship in the night. Don't make a helicopter pilot fly in to pick up your stupid corpse.

SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
There is so much wrong here... but assuming that you are trolling and ignoring you. For anyone else that might be curious: The danger AFTER an avalanche is near zero. There are very rarely second avalanches in the same place, their whole mechanism for sliding is more or less and all or nothing scenario. After an avalanche, the snow is extremely dense and compacted this is part of the problem looking for survivors. It’s hard to dig, you aren’t doing it with hands, it’s not fluffy snow, it’s ice the moment it stops moving. It’s a pain in the ass to look for people in an avi, but it’s not typically some life risking scenario for the people on the correct side of the snow.
- jeffrallen 6y ago
  Flying helicopters in mountains is risky. Helicopters are dispatched to many avalanche incidents. I live in Switzerland where we have a ridiculous number of avalanche fatalities, which means our rescuers are exposed to mountain risk when they should be sitting back at base waiting for a call to a road traffic accident, or a pediatric inter-hospital transfer, or something actually worth risking their lives for. Off piste skiers who put others at risk are a disgrace, and if my children do it, I will consider my education of them a failure. (An avalanche that arrives onto a maintained ski slope is a different story. Skiers and ski area operators have decided to make the effort, collectively, to mitigate the risks in a scalable manner, and that's fine.)
  - iguy 6y ago
    > our rescuers are exposed to mountain risk when they should be sitting back at base ... inter-hospital transfer ... actually worth risking their lives for. Do you think people who sign up to work for mountain rescue, in Switzerland, secretly wish for a life of sitting around and occasionally driving an ambulance to the next town? Boring jobs are also available... but some people want to be out there, summer and winter, with teamwork, helicopters & adrenaline.
    - Thlom 6y ago
      Chances are they indulge in risky activities on their free time. Especially the guys on the ground. At least in Norway the voluntary alpine rescue groups where born directly from the climbing community.
  - tony_cannistra 6y ago
    Like any form of risk, avalanche risk is able to be mitigated with information and deliberate decision making. Teaching these skills is the primary objective of avalanche education. It seems that your qualms with "off-piste" skiing are primarily as a result of an uneducated public, unable to make these risk-management decisions. I can certainly understand that frustration. But, wouldn't you agree that the solution is in education, rather than judgement?
    - jeffrallen 6y ago
      TFA says that education increases risk. Shrug.
  - hluska 6y ago
    Different SAR regions have different policies regarding recoveries. I can’t speak for Switzerland but know that in Canada, it would be pretty rare for a SAR team to accept more than the average risk of being outside to recover a body. Missing people are different but dead bodies are rarely recovered until conditions improve. I choose not to ski backcountry but have nothing against people who do. They’re athletes doing their thing. But I met a couple of backcountry snowmobilers my last time at the ACC hostel in Canmore and I have never heard such stupidity in my life. I was just about as angry as you are in these comments! :)
qbasic_forever 6y ago
Avalanches are not like what you think--they're not only on dangerous, steep mountains. Any slope that's about 30-50 degrees and loaded with unstable snow can slide and carry or kill people. There are hills just a few hundred yards away from the visitor center at Mt. Rainier that have slid and killed snowshoers and skiers.
- jeffrallen 6y ago
  The avalanches that are killing people all over the place this winter in Switzerland are exactly like TFA says: human-triggered.

SV_BubbleTime 6y ago

There is so much wrong here... but assuming that you are trolling and ignoring you. For anyone else that might be curious: The danger AFTER an avalanche is near zero. There are very rarely second avalanches in the same place, their whole mechanism for sliding is more or less and all or nothing scenario. After an avalanche, the snow is extremely dense and compacted this is part of the problem looking for survivors. It’s hard to dig, you aren’t doing it with hands, it’s not fluffy snow, it’s ice the moment it stops moving. It’s a pain in the ass to look for people in an avi, but it’s not typically some life risking scenario for the people on the correct side of the snow.

jeffrallen 6y ago
Flying helicopters in mountains is risky. Helicopters are dispatched to many avalanche incidents. I live in Switzerland where we have a ridiculous number of avalanche fatalities, which means our rescuers are exposed to mountain risk when they should be sitting back at base waiting for a call to a road traffic accident, or a pediatric inter-hospital transfer, or something actually worth risking their lives for. Off piste skiers who put others at risk are a disgrace, and if my children do it, I will consider my education of them a failure. (An avalanche that arrives onto a maintained ski slope is a different story. Skiers and ski area operators have decided to make the effort, collectively, to mitigate the risks in a scalable manner, and that's fine.)
- iguy 6y ago
  > our rescuers are exposed to mountain risk when they should be sitting back at base ... inter-hospital transfer ... actually worth risking their lives for. Do you think people who sign up to work for mountain rescue, in Switzerland, secretly wish for a life of sitting around and occasionally driving an ambulance to the next town? Boring jobs are also available... but some people want to be out there, summer and winter, with teamwork, helicopters & adrenaline.
  - Thlom 6y ago
    Chances are they indulge in risky activities on their free time. Especially the guys on the ground. At least in Norway the voluntary alpine rescue groups where born directly from the climbing community.
- tony_cannistra 6y ago
  Like any form of risk, avalanche risk is able to be mitigated with information and deliberate decision making. Teaching these skills is the primary objective of avalanche education. It seems that your qualms with "off-piste" skiing are primarily as a result of an uneducated public, unable to make these risk-management decisions. I can certainly understand that frustration. But, wouldn't you agree that the solution is in education, rather than judgement?
  - jeffrallen 6y ago
    TFA says that education increases risk. Shrug.
- hluska 6y ago
  Different SAR regions have different policies regarding recoveries. I can’t speak for Switzerland but know that in Canada, it would be pretty rare for a SAR team to accept more than the average risk of being outside to recover a body. Missing people are different but dead bodies are rarely recovered until conditions improve. I choose not to ski backcountry but have nothing against people who do. They’re athletes doing their thing. But I met a couple of backcountry snowmobilers my last time at the ACC hostel in Canmore and I have never heard such stupidity in my life. I was just about as angry as you are in these comments! :)

qbasic_forever 6y ago

Avalanches are not like what you think--they're not only on dangerous, steep mountains. Any slope that's about 30-50 degrees and loaded with unstable snow can slide and carry or kill people. There are hills just a few hundred yards away from the visitor center at Mt. Rainier that have slid and killed snowshoers and skiers.

jeffrallen 6y ago
The avalanches that are killing people all over the place this winter in Switzerland are exactly like TFA says: human-triggered.