4 ms·

But still how is it anyone's business what they do? It's an ostensibly free country with ostensibly free speech. If I want to have sex with toasters and I'm a

But still how is it anyone's business what they do? It's an ostensibly free country with ostensibly free speech. If I want to have sex with toasters and I'm a group with 10000 other people who do to? Why are people allowed to stop me?. Now walk that back 50 years and apply that to people's views of same sex relationships.

coffeefirst 6y ago
The key word is "provable." There's no evidence that your toaster sex club is going to escalate to murder. Possibly some painful burns and embarrassing visits to the ER, but hey, part of being in a free country is you've got to let the weirdos be. This is probably fine for most eccentric behavior. It does not work on the ideas suggested above. We know this because variations of those ideas consistently escalate to murder.
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  I have two rebuttals to that: 1. You punish the murder not the speech? 2. No one on earth can predict what speech will lead to murder or not unless you have a pre-cog from that Tom Cruise movie. So at some point you're leaving it up to humans to make the decision. Humans with agendas.
  - coffeefirst 6y ago
    Sure. 1. That's how law enforcement works. The FBI can't chase "racism" but it can come down on the KKK for a murder and conspiracy. It doesn't apply to regular people. I can look at QAnon, understand this is beyond the pale, and refuse to give it an inch. So can businesses, political parties, web platforms, and basically all of civilized society. 2. This isn't actually true. First, courts have tests for incitement. Nothing is perfect but this is well-tread ground. But more importantly, we're talking about Nazism and the like. Do you really mean to argue that nobody can know if Nazis intend to kill people?
    - nickthemagicman 6y ago
      1. Private businesses can do whatever they want. That doesn't make it correct or moral. 2. Catholics have killed way more people than Nazis AND have a pedophile crisis. Why aren't they being deplatformed? As a matter of fact Nazis are a subset of Catholics. Your argument only stands up when used selectively through your viewpoint using your definitions.
    - AndrewBissell 6y ago
      > I can look at QAnon, understand this is beyond the pale "QAnon" is a very wide ranging set of beliefs, from "a deep state faction has or will arrest every major politician and celebrity and replace them with holograms" to "elite pedophile rings exist and have protection from law enforcement and media scrutiny." Do you believe the latter idea should be "beyond the pale"? Because after the Franklin Scandal, the Doutroux Affair, the Catholic Church and Boy Scouts abuses, Dennis Hastert, Jimmy Saville, and most famously Epstein, there's all kinds of evidence in its favor.
      - krapp 6y ago
        QAnon doesn't believe that "elite pedophile rings exist and have protection from law enforcement and media scrutiny," that's not controversial. QAnon believes the Democratic Party and leftist elites are part of a secret cabal of Satan-worshipping cannibal pedophiles, and that Donald Trump has been sent by God to expose them. The former is a reasonable claim with obvious proof, but the actual beliefs of QAnon are extremist, paranoid lunatic nonsense, as even a cursory look at their wikipedia page will show[0]. These are not reasonable people whose only concern is the safety and well being of abused children, this is a right-wing doomsday cult. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon#False_predictions,_claims_and_beliefs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon#False_predictions,_claim...
- AndrewBissell 6y ago
  QAnon consistently escalates to murder? The only example that comes to mind is the guy who went vigilante and killed a mafia dude in New Jersey. Have there been others?

coffeefirst 6y ago

The key word is "provable." There's no evidence that your toaster sex club is going to escalate to murder. Possibly some painful burns and embarrassing visits to the ER, but hey, part of being in a free country is you've got to let the weirdos be. This is probably fine for most eccentric behavior. It does not work on the ideas suggested above. We know this because variations of those ideas consistently escalate to murder.

nickthemagicman 6y ago
I have two rebuttals to that: 1. You punish the murder not the speech? 2. No one on earth can predict what speech will lead to murder or not unless you have a pre-cog from that Tom Cruise movie. So at some point you're leaving it up to humans to make the decision. Humans with agendas.
- coffeefirst 6y ago
  Sure. 1. That's how law enforcement works. The FBI can't chase "racism" but it can come down on the KKK for a murder and conspiracy. It doesn't apply to regular people. I can look at QAnon, understand this is beyond the pale, and refuse to give it an inch. So can businesses, political parties, web platforms, and basically all of civilized society. 2. This isn't actually true. First, courts have tests for incitement. Nothing is perfect but this is well-tread ground. But more importantly, we're talking about Nazism and the like. Do you really mean to argue that nobody can know if Nazis intend to kill people?
  - nickthemagicman 6y ago
    1. Private businesses can do whatever they want. That doesn't make it correct or moral. 2. Catholics have killed way more people than Nazis AND have a pedophile crisis. Why aren't they being deplatformed? As a matter of fact Nazis are a subset of Catholics. Your argument only stands up when used selectively through your viewpoint using your definitions.
  - AndrewBissell 6y ago
    > I can look at QAnon, understand this is beyond the pale "QAnon" is a very wide ranging set of beliefs, from "a deep state faction has or will arrest every major politician and celebrity and replace them with holograms" to "elite pedophile rings exist and have protection from law enforcement and media scrutiny." Do you believe the latter idea should be "beyond the pale"? Because after the Franklin Scandal, the Doutroux Affair, the Catholic Church and Boy Scouts abuses, Dennis Hastert, Jimmy Saville, and most famously Epstein, there's all kinds of evidence in its favor.
    - krapp 6y ago
      QAnon doesn't believe that "elite pedophile rings exist and have protection from law enforcement and media scrutiny," that's not controversial. QAnon believes the Democratic Party and leftist elites are part of a secret cabal of Satan-worshipping cannibal pedophiles, and that Donald Trump has been sent by God to expose them. The former is a reasonable claim with obvious proof, but the actual beliefs of QAnon are extremist, paranoid lunatic nonsense, as even a cursory look at their wikipedia page will show[0]. These are not reasonable people whose only concern is the safety and well being of abused children, this is a right-wing doomsday cult. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon#False_predictions,_claims_and_beliefs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon#False_predictions,_claim...
AndrewBissell 6y ago
QAnon consistently escalates to murder? The only example that comes to mind is the guy who went vigilante and killed a mafia dude in New Jersey. Have there been others?