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Why should we laugh at Dr. Biden? She has the terminal degree in her field, only it happens to to not be a PhD. She is a professor. Should we also laugh at fol

Why should we laugh at Dr. Biden? She has the terminal degree in her field, only it happens to to not be a PhD. She is a professor. Should we also laugh at folks who graduate from MIT’s doctoral programs and want to be addressed as “Doctor” even though their degree might be a ScD?

chrisseaton 6y ago
> She is a professor. Shouldn't we call her 'Professor' then, since that outranks 'Doctor'?
- ghaff 6y ago
  I don't know about "outranks" in any formal sense. But, yes, most professors I know tend to go by professor rather than doctor.
- ecopoesis 6y ago
  If Dr. Biden wants to be called Professor then yes we should. But she’s made it clear she wants to be addressed as Doctor, a title she is entitled to, so what value is there in not respecting her wishes?
  - tiahura 6y ago
    https://abovethelaw.com/2020/11/lawyers-calling-themselves-doctor-is-still-stupid-trump-lawyer-edition/ https://abovethelaw.com/2020/11/lawyers-calling-themselves-d... “We’ve long taken the stance that, despite the technicality that a “J.D.” has the word “doctor” in it, lawyers who adopt the honorific are, well, jackasses.”
  - jariel 6y ago
    "a title she is entitled to, so what value is there in not respecting her wishes?" Because it's pompous, self-aggrandizing and totally deserving of ridicule for people to use highly formal titles when it is not normative. More ridiculous are the attacks on anyone who objects to it as 'sexist and partisan'. Profs and PhDs in the United States and elsewhere do not use such titles outside of Academia. Nobody in the US uses the term but medical doctors and dentists, or, in the most formal of situations. Profs if they are teaching - maybe. Do we say 'Doctor' when they talk about Steven Pinker? Neil De Grasse Tyson? Angel Merkel? Anyone else ? No, of course not. 'Dr. Sanjay Gupta' on CNN - yes - of course, but not because he's a PhD, but because he's a Medical Doctor, that is the normative usage, and it's relevant to his work. Anyone has the 'right' to use such titles can obviously use them, but you can also wear a Tuxedo to Applebee's, that doesn't make it not ridiculous.
- MereInterest 6y ago
  Outranks isn't the right term for it. "Doctor" is an educational description, that one is qualified to teach on the subject. "Professor" is a job description, that one is currently teaching. If a person retires, they are no longer a Professor, but they are still a Doctor.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    Ah - in the UK 'Professor' is a rank and you keep it after you retire.
    - MereInterest 6y ago
      Interesting, and that's a cultural difference that I wasn't aware of. For context, I'm from the US, and very few people insist on titles of any kind. In grad school, most of the professors went by first names only. That said, some of the professors were German and had horror stories of their professors getting enraged at students having the wrong order of titles in "Herr Professor Doktor Doktor", or forgetting the appropriate number of "Doktor"s for each professor. How much of that is a location-based difference or a generational difference, I couldn't say.
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
        Yes you wouldn’t use Dr or Prof in normal speech in person in the UK either - that’d be very dorky.
        ghaff 6y ago
        Not at a neighbor's barbecue, but in a US academic setting, it would be pretty natural in my experience to address someone as "professor" even if you knew them well enough to also refer to them by their first name. Doctor would not be particularly natural.
    - gkop 6y ago
      In the US there is a high rank of Professor, Professor Emeritus, that specifically confers that it is kept after retirement.
- SeanLuke 6y ago
  In Europe, yes. Not in the United States. There are many professors who do not have a PhD or even necessarily a terminal degree.
barry-cotter 6y ago
“The” terminal degree is inaccurate. Ph.D.s in education are granted all the time to people who plan to become professors. The Ed.D. is also a terminal degree in education but the standards are much lower because it’s not for aspirant academics; it’s for aspirant principals and superintendents.
rayiner 6y ago
> Should we also laugh at folks who graduate from MIT’s doctoral programs and want to be addressed as “Doctor” even though their degree might be a ScD? Yes. Insisting on the use of titles is vaguely European. That’s not how we do things in America, where the title for the head of state is just “Mr. President.”
- shakow 6y ago
  > That’s not how we do things in America, where the title for the head of state is just “Mr. President.” So, just like in Europe? “Mr. Prime Minister”, “M. le Président”, “Frau Bundeskanzlerin”, “Herr Bundeskanzler”, ...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
rhino369 6y ago
She should absolutely be called professor when she's acting in her role in academia. But an EdD is a professional degree like a JD or PharmD. Demanding we call her doctor out of her professional context is bizarre unless you want your cousin with a JD demanding you do the same.

chrisseaton 6y ago

> She is a professor. Shouldn't we call her 'Professor' then, since that outranks 'Doctor'?

ghaff 6y ago
I don't know about "outranks" in any formal sense. But, yes, most professors I know tend to go by professor rather than doctor.
ecopoesis 6y ago
If Dr. Biden wants to be called Professor then yes we should. But she’s made it clear she wants to be addressed as Doctor, a title she is entitled to, so what value is there in not respecting her wishes?
- tiahura 6y ago
  https://abovethelaw.com/2020/11/lawyers-calling-themselves-doctor-is-still-stupid-trump-lawyer-edition/ https://abovethelaw.com/2020/11/lawyers-calling-themselves-d... “We’ve long taken the stance that, despite the technicality that a “J.D.” has the word “doctor” in it, lawyers who adopt the honorific are, well, jackasses.”
- jariel 6y ago
  "a title she is entitled to, so what value is there in not respecting her wishes?" Because it's pompous, self-aggrandizing and totally deserving of ridicule for people to use highly formal titles when it is not normative. More ridiculous are the attacks on anyone who objects to it as 'sexist and partisan'. Profs and PhDs in the United States and elsewhere do not use such titles outside of Academia. Nobody in the US uses the term but medical doctors and dentists, or, in the most formal of situations. Profs if they are teaching - maybe. Do we say 'Doctor' when they talk about Steven Pinker? Neil De Grasse Tyson? Angel Merkel? Anyone else ? No, of course not. 'Dr. Sanjay Gupta' on CNN - yes - of course, but not because he's a PhD, but because he's a Medical Doctor, that is the normative usage, and it's relevant to his work. Anyone has the 'right' to use such titles can obviously use them, but you can also wear a Tuxedo to Applebee's, that doesn't make it not ridiculous.
MereInterest 6y ago
Outranks isn't the right term for it. "Doctor" is an educational description, that one is qualified to teach on the subject. "Professor" is a job description, that one is currently teaching. If a person retires, they are no longer a Professor, but they are still a Doctor.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  Ah - in the UK 'Professor' is a rank and you keep it after you retire.
  - MereInterest 6y ago
    Interesting, and that's a cultural difference that I wasn't aware of. For context, I'm from the US, and very few people insist on titles of any kind. In grad school, most of the professors went by first names only. That said, some of the professors were German and had horror stories of their professors getting enraged at students having the wrong order of titles in "Herr Professor Doktor Doktor", or forgetting the appropriate number of "Doktor"s for each professor. How much of that is a location-based difference or a generational difference, I couldn't say.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      Yes you wouldn’t use Dr or Prof in normal speech in person in the UK either - that’d be very dorky.
      - ghaff 6y ago
        Not at a neighbor's barbecue, but in a US academic setting, it would be pretty natural in my experience to address someone as "professor" even if you knew them well enough to also refer to them by their first name. Doctor would not be particularly natural.
  - gkop 6y ago
    In the US there is a high rank of Professor, Professor Emeritus, that specifically confers that it is kept after retirement.
SeanLuke 6y ago
In Europe, yes. Not in the United States. There are many professors who do not have a PhD or even necessarily a terminal degree.

barry-cotter 6y ago

“The” terminal degree is inaccurate. Ph.D.s in education are granted all the time to people who plan to become professors. The Ed.D. is also a terminal degree in education but the standards are much lower because it’s not for aspirant academics; it’s for aspirant principals and superintendents.

rayiner 6y ago

> Should we also laugh at folks who graduate from MIT’s doctoral programs and want to be addressed as “Doctor” even though their degree might be a ScD? Yes. Insisting on the use of titles is vaguely European. That’s not how we do things in America, where the title for the head of state is just “Mr. President.”

shakow 6y ago
> That’s not how we do things in America, where the title for the head of state is just “Mr. President.” So, just like in Europe? “Mr. Prime Minister”, “M. le Président”, “Frau Bundeskanzlerin”, “Herr Bundeskanzler”, ...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

rhino369 6y ago

She should absolutely be called professor when she's acting in her role in academia. But an EdD is a professional degree like a JD or PharmD. Demanding we call her doctor out of her professional context is bizarre unless you want your cousin with a JD demanding you do the same.