4 ms·

I know that love of the NHS in the U.K. is a religion but the truth is the quality of cancer care you will receive is lower, there’s less preventative testing,

by bb123 6y ago

I know that love of the NHS in the U.K. is a religion but the truth is the quality of cancer care you will receive is lower, there’s less preventative testing, and longer wait times. All of that means you’re way more likely to die of cancer under the care of the NHS than the American healthcare system.

DanBC 6y ago
And yet all the things you mention are only important for 5 year survival rates. They don't seem to make much difference to all cause mortality. This means Americans are paying lots of money for treatment that lowers quality of life, can have serious side effects and unintended consequences, and which is mostly not allowing them to live longer. I know which I prefer.
eterm 6y ago
There's less diagnosis for sure, but wait times for actual treatment has been absolutely amazing in my experience. The diagnosis took way longer, in the US I'd have likely been diagnosed months earlier. However, I was diagnosed on a Thursday, started steroid treatments by Monday in preparation for starting full treatment a few days later, and also went from an PET/CT scan to having radiotherapy just 3 days later. I'd be wary of looking too deeply into survival statistics, especially since the much greater emphasis on diagnosis means that a lot of the cancers treated in the US are an earlier stage which is reflected in the survival statistics. It's also important to consider that there aren't people made homeless through medical debt in the UK. There aren't people who avoid going to the doctor because they feel they can't afford it (regardless or whether they could with the appropriate allowances etc). It's not a "religion", it's just experience of 70 years of fully public healthcare which is reflected in things like our vaccine rollout which when compared to our neighbours we have been miles ahead. Even those countries with socialised healthcare but private provision (public insurance + private provision) have massively lagged behind because having a single provider of healthcare has been monumental in coordinating a massive vaccination effort, and as a result the UK is almost top of the per capita vaccination rate with only the much smaller Israel and Bahrain above it. But again, I can't stress how good it is that I don't have to worry about my wallet when getting treated. I was able to change jobs even while undergoing treatment because I didn't have to worry about losing access to health insurance. I may be wrong but if I were working the US I'd feel trapped in my previous job because I'd have been worried about not being covered for a time. The TLDR is that I value living in a society where the poorest and the middle class both have access to the same healthcare. (And yes, like other countries we also do have a private healthcare industry, which is popular especially for elective stuff.)
simonswords82 6y ago
Interesting, I went away to look in to your statement and found this article: https://fullfact.org/health/which-safer-us-hospital-or-english-one/ https://fullfact.org/health/which-safer-us-hospital-or-engli... I think it's hard to compare the two health systems purely on their data as there is a culture of healthcare that it is difficult to factor in. E.g. how many people don't go to hospital and then die in the US because they cannot afford healthcare? I witnessed this first hand in New York when somebody was knocked out and as I was dialling 911 they woke up and shouted not to call an ambulance because they couldn't afford the cost. Equally, understand that the NHS does not have the funding that the US healthcare system and that wait times are generally longer. etc etc...

by bb123 6y ago

DanBC 6y ago

And yet all the things you mention are only important for 5 year survival rates. They don't seem to make much difference to all cause mortality. This means Americans are paying lots of money for treatment that lowers quality of life, can have serious side effects and unintended consequences, and which is mostly not allowing them to live longer. I know which I prefer.

eterm 6y ago

There's less diagnosis for sure, but wait times for actual treatment has been absolutely amazing in my experience. The diagnosis took way longer, in the US I'd have likely been diagnosed months earlier. However, I was diagnosed on a Thursday, started steroid treatments by Monday in preparation for starting full treatment a few days later, and also went from an PET/CT scan to having radiotherapy just 3 days later. I'd be wary of looking too deeply into survival statistics, especially since the much greater emphasis on diagnosis means that a lot of the cancers treated in the US are an earlier stage which is reflected in the survival statistics. It's also important to consider that there aren't people made homeless through medical debt in the UK. There aren't people who avoid going to the doctor because they feel they can't afford it (regardless or whether they could with the appropriate allowances etc). It's not a "religion", it's just experience of 70 years of fully public healthcare which is reflected in things like our vaccine rollout which when compared to our neighbours we have been miles ahead. Even those countries with socialised healthcare but private provision (public insurance + private provision) have massively lagged behind because having a single provider of healthcare has been monumental in coordinating a massive vaccination effort, and as a result the UK is almost top of the per capita vaccination rate with only the much smaller Israel and Bahrain above it. But again, I can't stress how good it is that I don't have to worry about my wallet when getting treated. I was able to change jobs even while undergoing treatment because I didn't have to worry about losing access to health insurance. I may be wrong but if I were working the US I'd feel trapped in my previous job because I'd have been worried about not being covered for a time. The TLDR is that I value living in a society where the poorest and the middle class both have access to the same healthcare. (And yes, like other countries we also do have a private healthcare industry, which is popular especially for elective stuff.)

simonswords82 6y ago

Interesting, I went away to look in to your statement and found this article: https://fullfact.org/health/which-safer-us-hospital-or-english-one/ https://fullfact.org/health/which-safer-us-hospital-or-engli... I think it's hard to compare the two health systems purely on their data as there is a culture of healthcare that it is difficult to factor in. E.g. how many people don't go to hospital and then die in the US because they cannot afford healthcare? I witnessed this first hand in New York when somebody was knocked out and as I was dialling 911 they woke up and shouted not to call an ambulance because they couldn't afford the cost. Equally, understand that the NHS does not have the funding that the US healthcare system and that wait times are generally longer. etc etc...