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> Underneath this post is the assumption that the author is so much smarter than everybody else because they are Rational with a capital R and can therefore har
by zamfi 6y ago
> Underneath this post is the assumption that the author is so much smarter than everybody else because they are Rational with a capital R and can therefore harness the power of science to make a vaccine
I didn't get this from the post at all -- they didn't invent the vaccine, they're just trying a protocol put together by some other biologists they seem to trust.
The certifications and testing is not for show, and no one serious is claiming that. Asking an entire population to vaccinate is a huge responsibility; if you're making claims to the public that an injection is safe you'd better be as sure as you can reasonably be that it's true.
If you're just experimenting on yourself, the bar is lower: as here, you just need to convince yourself that your risk of adverse outcomes is very low.
An individual may be willing to accept a 0.1% risk of severe adverse outcome. A society that asks 300 million people to take that risk will experience 300,000 severe adverse outcomes.
- andy_ppp 6y agoWhich is higher, the risk of the vaccine or the risk of COVID (and not just for you, for people you meet and possibly care about)?
- JacobSuperslav 6y agoRisk of Covid is significantly higher. just stating for others.
- mattmaroon 6y agoWell, if you’re talking homemade vaccines, depending on your age and underlying conditions it could easily be that.
- eyko 6y agoHomemade vaccines are not contagious (just stating the obvious).
- logicchains 6y agoThis is obviously false in the case that an error is made in the process. E.g. someone vaccinates themselves with a live virus, or possibly accidentally engineers an even more virulent strain.
- tibbetts 6y agoIf you are making your vaccine from artificial peptides that are a hundred times shorter than a live virus, this seems unlikely. There was no way for live virus to be introduced into this process.
- logicchains 6y agoThe parent said "Homemade vaccines are not contagious (just stating the obvious). ", they didn't say "homemade vaccines made from artificial peptides are not contagious".
- mattmaroon 6y agoSo? I’m not worried about the effects on others if I squirt peptides and chitosan up my nose. I’m worried about the effect on me. A homemade vaccine is both unlikely to be effective (and therefore do nothing for others) and probably more likely to harm me personally than covid. It’s certainly the greater harm for most people.
- henryaj 6y agoThe risk of permanent smell changes, possible neurological changes, and a chance of hospitalisation and death from COVID is unlikely to be smaller than ingesting a microscopic quantity of a peptide.
- mattmaroon 6y agoDisagree because you’re looking at it as if my options are get Covid or take homemade vaccine. I can pretty easily avoid Covid for the couple more months it’ll take before I get a real vaccine, so it’s low danger for me. I’m also younger and healthier so my risk if I get it is quite small. High enough that I’m modifying my life to avoid it, but still pretty small. And since I think the homemade Covid vaccine is unlikely to work, it is unlikely to decrease the odds of any of the things you mentioned anyway. However squirting strange chemicals up your nose adds risk. People die from Neti pots and that’s just water. If I’m currently faced with the choices of taking a homemade vaccine or not taking a homemade vaccine, the latter is clearly the less dangerous course of action. I think that’s the spirit of the comment to which we were all replying, and it’s the actual choice being discussed. Now if I were an 85 y/o diabetic in a nursing home and there weren’t a vetted vaccine available that might be different.
- mattmaroon 6y agoI would say your risk in taking a homemade vaccine is greater than your risk from Covid if you don’t take the homemade vaccine. The homemade vaccine is unlikely to work so it won’t decrease covid risk much to you or others. The expected value is low. It seems like it’s probably more likely to harm you, either directly because you’re shooting amateur-made chemicals up your nose, or indirectly because it might give you false confidence or make Covid hurt you more if you do contract it. It’s an interesting idea to make your own vaccine, but clearly a bad one.
- Kim_Bruning 6y agoWhy do you think it's a bad idea to make your own vaccine? Does your opinion change if you assume the person making the vaccine has had lab training?
- mattmaroon 6y agoI guess there would clearly be some people who would be much more likely to be successful than others. I can’t imagine it’s a good idea in our current situation, in which there are very effective vaccines that have gone through extensive testing that will soon be readily available. Several of the vaccine candidates from a year ago have failed. So even pros with virtually unlimited budgets fail a decent amount of the time. Perhaps there’s a case where someone for whatever reason will not be able to buy a safe vaccine soon, is at real risk of contracting covid, is demographically at high risk from covid, and has enough knowledge and access to proper materials to make their own, and for that person it is a smart move. I don’t know. Anything is possible. I’m also defining bad idea as worse than the alternatives. It’s like riding a motorcycle. I consider that a bad idea because you have a much, much higher chance of dying than in a car. But your most likely result is neutral. Most people who try to make a vaccine will probably just lose a little money and time. And I should note I do things that are bad ideas sometimes too. If you’re doing it for fun or education or whatever else that’s fine, you should just be realistic about the risk you are incurring.
- Kim_Bruning 6y ago
- d0mine 6y agoThere are no safety/effectiveness guarantees for the vaccine https://radvac.org/faq/ https://radvac.org/faq/
- d0mine 6y agoHere's direct quote from the link: "we cannot guarantee safety"