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I said they were hypocrites. Not that it would have an effect. It would end their hypocrisy.

by babesh 6y ago

zepto 6y ago
Seems like you don’t care about religious freedom Pakistan at all. This is just about you wanting to shame Apple.
- babesh 6y ago
  And you don’t care about hypocrisy. And you don’t care about religious freedom either.
  - zepto 6y ago
    Thanks for being honest. I care about hypocrisy. I just don’t think it’s a moral issue, because everyone is a hypocrite from someone else’s point of view. I care about religious freedom quite deeply, indeed more so than most freedoms. I am interested in constructive steps to improve it. Pakistan is a theocracy, where as many as 90% of the population are Sunni Muslim. The Ahmediyya are a modern sect founded in the late 1800s, who are regarded as non-Muslims by the Pakistani constitution. The vast majority of the Pakistani population supports this view. I don’t think you know much about how to change this situation, and I think it’s fairly obvious that Apple or Google leaving, as you have already admitted elsewhere, would not have a significant effect. It’s really not clear what you are trying to achieve, except for some shaming of Apple for a bullshit reason.
    - babesh 6y ago
      Hypocrisy is a moral issue. It plays into the principle of fairness that even animals have. If that isn’t morality, then almost nothing is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy Also, it is right to call it like it is. Telling the truth as you see it is the right thing to do. Not telling the truth is not right.
      - zepto 6y ago
        I notice you say “It’s right to call it like it is”, and not “It’s right to call it like you see it”. This is a form of self-delusion. You believe you see an absolute truth, rather than just a perspective. If you read it the Wikipedia article, you’ll see it mentions hypocrisy as a moral principle in Islam, and other religions. However it also talks about how it’s a psychological feature of being human. According to that article, you are a hypocrite, along with everyone else. That isn’t grounds for a moral foundation. There is a distinction between hypocrisy and lying. And, as I have already stated, everyone is a hypocrite from someone else’s point of view. I see you continue to confirm that you have nothing to offer that can help freedom of religion in Pakistan. You have never actually claimed that freedom of religion was your goal, and conceded that it wasn’t when I pressed you, but you have criticized me for not caring about it. That seems like a clear case of hypocrisy to me - criticizing someone else for not caring about something, that you yourself do not care about.

I said they were hypocrites. Not that it would have an effect. It would end their hypocrisy.

by babesh 6y ago

I said they were hypocrites. Not that it would have an effect. It would end their hypocrisy.

zepto 6y ago

Seems like you don’t care about religious freedom Pakistan at all. This is just about you wanting to shame Apple.

babesh 6y ago
And you don’t care about hypocrisy. And you don’t care about religious freedom either.
- zepto 6y ago
  Thanks for being honest. I care about hypocrisy. I just don’t think it’s a moral issue, because everyone is a hypocrite from someone else’s point of view. I care about religious freedom quite deeply, indeed more so than most freedoms. I am interested in constructive steps to improve it. Pakistan is a theocracy, where as many as 90% of the population are Sunni Muslim. The Ahmediyya are a modern sect founded in the late 1800s, who are regarded as non-Muslims by the Pakistani constitution. The vast majority of the Pakistani population supports this view. I don’t think you know much about how to change this situation, and I think it’s fairly obvious that Apple or Google leaving, as you have already admitted elsewhere, would not have a significant effect. It’s really not clear what you are trying to achieve, except for some shaming of Apple for a bullshit reason.
  - babesh 6y ago
    Hypocrisy is a moral issue. It plays into the principle of fairness that even animals have. If that isn’t morality, then almost nothing is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy Also, it is right to call it like it is. Telling the truth as you see it is the right thing to do. Not telling the truth is not right.
    - zepto 6y ago
      I notice you say “It’s right to call it like it is”, and not “It’s right to call it like you see it”. This is a form of self-delusion. You believe you see an absolute truth, rather than just a perspective. If you read it the Wikipedia article, you’ll see it mentions hypocrisy as a moral principle in Islam, and other religions. However it also talks about how it’s a psychological feature of being human. According to that article, you are a hypocrite, along with everyone else. That isn’t grounds for a moral foundation. There is a distinction between hypocrisy and lying. And, as I have already stated, everyone is a hypocrite from someone else’s point of view. I see you continue to confirm that you have nothing to offer that can help freedom of religion in Pakistan. You have never actually claimed that freedom of religion was your goal, and conceded that it wasn’t when I pressed you, but you have criticized me for not caring about it. That seems like a clear case of hypocrisy to me - criticizing someone else for not caring about something, that you yourself do not care about.