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"To be very clear, I am not blaming the people in any way for the situation they are in" Perhaps you should blame the people, if by the people you mean the Pak

"To be very clear, I am not blaming the people in any way for the situation they are in" Perhaps you should blame the people, if by the people you mean the Pakistani populace. I say this as a Pakistani. The issue of discrimination towards Ahmedis is something that has widespread support among the populace. From uneducated masses to university professors, poor to rich. Very few people actually oppose the discrimination towards Ahmedis. And those who speak up to support Ahmedis have to be very careful. The issue with Ahmedis is always pretty closely linked to the issue with blasphemy and of protecting the "Prophet's honor" in Pakistan. Many people have been killed over the blasphemy issue and even those who would say that blasphemy laws need to be revised were killed. You can look up the murder of Salman Taseer, the chief minister of Punjab (one of Pakistan's 4 provinces, and the largest province by population). Taseer was killed by his own bodyguard for saying that blasphemy laws should be reviewed.

pas 6y ago
Why are Pakistani people dismissive of arguments for support for Ahmedis? Sure, it might be ultimately their own making, but how much of that is the product of brainwashing by certain rival groups trying to gain power? It seems the people are just as much trapped in this, even if they don't realize. (Like the QAnon cultists in the US. And there's a very big political party in the US basically cheering them on for very-very-very short sighted goals.) People ought to know better, people have the responsibility to better themselves, their thought patterns, their reasoning, refine their worldview ... but if their ability to do so is already thin, it's hard to blame people, since - it seems - they had very little power to act responsible.
- selimthegrim 6y ago
  The best analogy I could give you is the Mormons in the 1830s, or Jews for Jesus if the Orthodox Jews were in charge of enforcing penalties on the books for "epikoros"
franga2000 6y ago
Honestly, I don't know the first thing about the situation over there, so I wanted to make sure it didn't sound like I was blaming the oppressed people for being opressed and not fighting for their freedom hard enough. But if there are indeed large parts of the population that supoort this kind of oppression, then that might actually support the argument for not doing business with them. In that case, not only do you anger the victims to revolt, but also maybe force the oppressors to reconsider if oppressing whatever group of people is worth losing access to so much of modern technology over. Of course, the possibility is that the oppressors just lash out and make things worse for the victims, or find other ways of hurting them, but despite that possibility, I'd still argue it's more moral for G&A to refuse their demands and leave the country if they have to.

pas 6y ago

Why are Pakistani people dismissive of arguments for support for Ahmedis? Sure, it might be ultimately their own making, but how much of that is the product of brainwashing by certain rival groups trying to gain power? It seems the people are just as much trapped in this, even if they don't realize. (Like the QAnon cultists in the US. And there's a very big political party in the US basically cheering them on for very-very-very short sighted goals.) People ought to know better, people have the responsibility to better themselves, their thought patterns, their reasoning, refine their worldview ... but if their ability to do so is already thin, it's hard to blame people, since - it seems - they had very little power to act responsible.

selimthegrim 6y ago
The best analogy I could give you is the Mormons in the 1830s, or Jews for Jesus if the Orthodox Jews were in charge of enforcing penalties on the books for "epikoros"

franga2000 6y ago

Honestly, I don't know the first thing about the situation over there, so I wanted to make sure it didn't sound like I was blaming the oppressed people for being opressed and not fighting for their freedom hard enough. But if there are indeed large parts of the population that supoort this kind of oppression, then that might actually support the argument for not doing business with them. In that case, not only do you anger the victims to revolt, but also maybe force the oppressors to reconsider if oppressing whatever group of people is worth losing access to so much of modern technology over. Of course, the possibility is that the oppressors just lash out and make things worse for the victims, or find other ways of hurting them, but despite that possibility, I'd still argue it's more moral for G&A to refuse their demands and leave the country if they have to.