5 ms·

Just out of curiosity, what are the outrageous claims that have come up?

by j_baker 15y ago

tristanperry 15y ago
I've been a bit AFK in the past couple of weeks, but one that surfaced last night/early this morning was that if a website sends out a newsletter and too many people flag it for spam, you could get banned from Google. There's probably been (many) more, too (there's usually plently).
- dwforbes 15y ago
  That scenario was that people received the email but simply didn't open it, instead of explicitly marking it as spam. I have hundreds of emails that I voluntarily signed up for but never actually have any interest in reading. If gmail actually did count these "read or unread" percentages to weight the likelihood of a given user reading it, that's actually pretty clever.
ableal 15y ago
By coincidence, I had this leftover tab up next: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2600933 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2600933 - Matt Cutts denying "Email Reputation Causes Penalties in Google Search Results".
itswindy 15y ago
Just out of curiosity, what are the outrageous claims that have come up? A lot of them come from sudden up and downs, with no apparent changes by the webmaster, as Google does "quality" changes. So people wonder and Google loves to spread FUD.
- davidw 15y ago
  Hrm. This is why SEO seems like there's a high BS quotient. In some situations, it sounds more like a bunch of norsemen huddled around a fire trying to explain their harsh and unpredictable world via a series of angry and capricious gods, rather than rational, scientific people. And in many ways, that's how it is - you do some experiments, and by the time you have something definitive (you think, at least), the rules change and your experiments are potentially no longer valid. Even Einstein would be no match for a world where C kept changing at random.
  - itswindy 15y ago
    True, but a lot of these changes are for no reason. One month you go to 10,000 G visitors from 4,000 the next you drop to 2,000.
    - JonnieCache 15y ago
      >...a lot of these changes are for no reason. One month you go to 10,000 G visitors from 4,000 the next you drop to 2,000. Systems comprised of vast numbers of highly interconnected, constantly self-modifying feedback loops exhibit chaotic behaviour. Who'd have thought it?
      - itswindy 15y ago
        Systems comprised of vast numbers of highly interconnected, constantly self-modifying feedback loops exhibit chaotic behaviour. Who'd have thought it? Ummm...how does that explain sites that stayed more or less with a range for many years? This is what Amit Singhal said, your site is "high quality" one month, junk quality the next and then back to "high quality" and deserving of better rankings without changing a freaking thing. In fact they are sure that they called everyone's demoted site "low quality." That's the truth.
        JonnieCache 15y ago
        I have no goddamn idea. And neither does anyone else. That's part of what chaos means.
    - davidw 15y ago
      Random events by "higher powers" are exactly the sort of things that cause people to invent religions, conspiracy theories, and other 'beliefs'.
  - mgkimsal 15y ago
    I'd say it's almost exactly how it is. In the natural world, the 'rules' don't change, we just continually discover more, and all the attendant nuances. In the SEO world, Google/Bing/etc really do just change the rules as to how stuff works, possibly because they get angry about abuses going on. There are a small handful of people who control how the online universe largely operates, just like gods. There's no point in pretending to 'know' things about SEO, because unless you've worked at one of the big search companies, you can't really know what you're talking about. And in the few cases you do, there's no guarantee that the same will hold true tomorrow. In face, the more people 'know' something about SEO, the more likely that particular rule will change. And no, I don't claim to be an SEO expert - I just tire of hearing the outlandish claims from 'experts' charging gobs of money from unsuspecting hopefuls.
Matt_Cutts 15y ago
Here are the claims I can think of in the last few days: - Claiming that your email newsletter's Gmail reputation affects your ranking: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2600933 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2600933 I did a full debunk here: http://goo.gl/6A8f9 http://goo.gl/6A8f9 - Claiming that Hacker News was penalized by Panda: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2595704 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2595704 I did a full debunk here: http://goo.gl/7Tw9o http://goo.gl/7Tw9o - There was an SEO blog that had a headline "Google Copying Bing's Image Results? Google Cheating Bing?" at http://www.seroundtable.com/google-indexing-bing-13477.html http://www.seroundtable.com/google-indexing-bing-13477.html when in fact it was just images on bing.net and Bing neglected to have a robots.txt file. We have a policy against search results in search results, so we were happy to remove the images in less than a day. The SEO blogger changed the headline to be less sensational. - Oh, one more debunk: http://allthingsd.com/20110527/google-no-government-investigations-have-not-frozen-our-manual-search-tweaks/ http://allthingsd.com/20110527/google-no-government-investig... The webspam team continues to take manual action to remove spam in the same way that we have for the last decade. Those are the four debunks that come to mind from the last week or so. Sigh.
- yoast 15y ago
  So much for debunking the fact that you don't do much debunking, I guess? :)

Just out of curiosity, what are the outrageous claims that have come up?

by j_baker 15y ago

Just out of curiosity, what are the outrageous claims that have come up?

I've been a bit AFK in the past couple of weeks, but one that surfaced last night/early this morning was that if a website sends out a newsletter and too many people flag it for spam, you could get banned from Google. There's probably been (many) more, too (there's usually plently).

dwforbes 15y ago
That scenario was that people received the email but simply didn't open it, instead of explicitly marking it as spam. I have hundreds of emails that I voluntarily signed up for but never actually have any interest in reading. If gmail actually did count these "read or unread" percentages to weight the likelihood of a given user reading it, that's actually pretty clever.

ableal 15y ago

By coincidence, I had this leftover tab up next: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2600933 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2600933 - Matt Cutts denying "Email Reputation Causes Penalties in Google Search Results".

itswindy 15y ago

Just out of curiosity, what are the outrageous claims that have come up? A lot of them come from sudden up and downs, with no apparent changes by the webmaster, as Google does "quality" changes. So people wonder and Google loves to spread FUD.

davidw 15y ago
Hrm. This is why SEO seems like there's a high BS quotient. In some situations, it sounds more like a bunch of norsemen huddled around a fire trying to explain their harsh and unpredictable world via a series of angry and capricious gods, rather than rational, scientific people. And in many ways, that's how it is - you do some experiments, and by the time you have something definitive (you think, at least), the rules change and your experiments are potentially no longer valid. Even Einstein would be no match for a world where C kept changing at random.
- itswindy 15y ago
  True, but a lot of these changes are for no reason. One month you go to 10,000 G visitors from 4,000 the next you drop to 2,000.
  - JonnieCache 15y ago
    >...a lot of these changes are for no reason. One month you go to 10,000 G visitors from 4,000 the next you drop to 2,000. Systems comprised of vast numbers of highly interconnected, constantly self-modifying feedback loops exhibit chaotic behaviour. Who'd have thought it?
    - itswindy 15y ago
      Systems comprised of vast numbers of highly interconnected, constantly self-modifying feedback loops exhibit chaotic behaviour. Who'd have thought it? Ummm...how does that explain sites that stayed more or less with a range for many years? This is what Amit Singhal said, your site is "high quality" one month, junk quality the next and then back to "high quality" and deserving of better rankings without changing a freaking thing. In fact they are sure that they called everyone's demoted site "low quality." That's the truth.
      - JonnieCache 15y ago
        I have no goddamn idea. And neither does anyone else. That's part of what chaos means.
  - davidw 15y ago
    Random events by "higher powers" are exactly the sort of things that cause people to invent religions, conspiracy theories, and other 'beliefs'.
- mgkimsal 15y ago
  I'd say it's almost exactly how it is. In the natural world, the 'rules' don't change, we just continually discover more, and all the attendant nuances. In the SEO world, Google/Bing/etc really do just change the rules as to how stuff works, possibly because they get angry about abuses going on. There are a small handful of people who control how the online universe largely operates, just like gods. There's no point in pretending to 'know' things about SEO, because unless you've worked at one of the big search companies, you can't really know what you're talking about. And in the few cases you do, there's no guarantee that the same will hold true tomorrow. In face, the more people 'know' something about SEO, the more likely that particular rule will change. And no, I don't claim to be an SEO expert - I just tire of hearing the outlandish claims from 'experts' charging gobs of money from unsuspecting hopefuls.

Matt_Cutts 15y ago

Here are the claims I can think of in the last few days: - Claiming that your email newsletter's Gmail reputation affects your ranking: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2600933 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2600933 I did a full debunk here: http://goo.gl/6A8f9 http://goo.gl/6A8f9 - Claiming that Hacker News was penalized by Panda: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2595704 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2595704 I did a full debunk here: http://goo.gl/7Tw9o http://goo.gl/7Tw9o - There was an SEO blog that had a headline "Google Copying Bing's Image Results? Google Cheating Bing?" at http://www.seroundtable.com/google-indexing-bing-13477.html http://www.seroundtable.com/google-indexing-bing-13477.html when in fact it was just images on bing.net and Bing neglected to have a robots.txt file. We have a policy against search results in search results, so we were happy to remove the images in less than a day. The SEO blogger changed the headline to be less sensational. - Oh, one more debunk: http://allthingsd.com/20110527/google-no-government-investigations-have-not-frozen-our-manual-search-tweaks/ http://allthingsd.com/20110527/google-no-government-investig... The webspam team continues to take manual action to remove spam in the same way that we have for the last decade. Those are the four debunks that come to mind from the last week or so. Sigh.

yoast 15y ago
So much for debunking the fact that you don't do much debunking, I guess? :)