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Also, let’s take it even further. How about the right to vote? Would it ok to do business in a country where women don’t have the right to vote? How about apart
by babesh 6y ago
Also, let’s take it even further. How about the right to vote? Would it ok to do business in a country where women don’t have the right to vote? How about apartheid? How about slavery? How about genocide? Where is your line and on what basis would you make it? Do you even have a line?
- zepto 6y agoNo - I just don’t think Apple has the power to stop religious repression in Pakistan. Despite being asked, you haven’t actually explained how they can do this. Also, I ask again: do the people of Pakistan want Apple to abandon their customers in Pakistan?
- babesh 6y agoThey can do any of the following: - stop branding their morality (especially Apple) - stop doing business in Pakistan You go try asking them.
- zepto 6y ago> stop branding their morality You can’t seriously think this would have any effect on Pakistan’s regime. > You go try asking them. Ok, so you don’t know what people in Pakistan want. How is it ethical for you to argue that they should not be allowed Google or Apple’s products?
- babesh 6y agoI said they were hypocrites. Not that it would have an effect. It would end their hypocrisy.
- zepto 6y agoSeems like you don’t care about religious freedom Pakistan at all. This is just about you wanting to shame Apple.
- babesh 6y agoAnd you don’t care about hypocrisy. And you don’t care about religious freedom either.
- zepto 6y agoThanks for being honest. I care about hypocrisy. I just don’t think it’s a moral issue, because everyone is a hypocrite from someone else’s point of view. I care about religious freedom quite deeply, indeed more so than most freedoms. I am interested in constructive steps to improve it. Pakistan is a theocracy, where as many as 90% of the population are Sunni Muslim. The Ahmediyya are a modern sect founded in the late 1800s, who are regarded as non-Muslims by the Pakistani constitution. The vast majority of the Pakistani population supports this view. I don’t think you know much about how to change this situation, and I think it’s fairly obvious that Apple or Google leaving, as you have already admitted elsewhere, would not have a significant effect. It’s really not clear what you are trying to achieve, except for some shaming of Apple for a bullshit reason.
- babesh 6y agoHypocrisy is a moral issue. It plays into the principle of fairness that even animals have. If that isn’t morality, then almost nothing is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy Also, it is right to call it like it is. Telling the truth as you see it is the right thing to do. Not telling the truth is not right.
- zepto 6y agoI notice you say “It’s right to call it like it is”, and not “It’s right to call it like you see it”. This is a form of self-delusion. You believe you see an absolute truth, rather than just a perspective. If you read it the Wikipedia article, you’ll see it mentions hypocrisy as a moral principle in Islam, and other religions. However it also talks about how it’s a psychological feature of being human. According to that article, you are a hypocrite, along with everyone else. That isn’t grounds for a moral foundation. There is a distinction between hypocrisy and lying. And, as I have already stated, everyone is a hypocrite from someone else’s point of view. I see you continue to confirm that you have nothing to offer that can help freedom of religion in Pakistan. You have never actually claimed that freedom of religion was your goal, and conceded that it wasn’t when I pressed you, but you have criticized me for not caring about it. That seems like a clear case of hypocrisy to me - criticizing someone else for not caring about something, that you yourself do not care about.