7 ms·

Most important lesson I ever learned and I share it freely, because I could have saved 2 years of misery had I really understood. People be like “well you say t

by psyc 6y ago

Most important lesson I ever learned and I share it freely, because I could have saved 2 years of misery had I really understood. People be like “well you say that but some of us have mortgages, families, kids, cats to feed”. Well guess what. If you burn out, not only will you lose that income, but you won’t be able to look for a job at best, or wind up with hospital bills at worst. In other words, you risk a far worse situation than if you had quit with no notice and nothing lined up. There is no possible excuse for risking catastrophic illness, especially when you have more job mobility and are in greater demand than most professions. There is no “if you can” as hard as that may be to accept, or as irresponsible as it may sound to you or look to others. It’s not good but it’s the least worst option. If the job is harming you badly enough then sorry but if you cannot negotiate a better situation where you are, you must leave for yourself and anyone who cares about you.

marcod 6y ago
So true! I also lost about 2 years and my physical and mental health really deteriorated and 5 years later I'm still dealing with fallout. I was a manager under a toxic director, so I had the added pressure of making sure my team was all right. After most of them had found positions elsewhere, I finally left.
- lazide 6y ago
  For future reference, having done it both ways - finding a good out for yourself(and putting your oxygen mask on first) is usually better for the people under you too, as it shows them what they should be doing AND gives them (often) a place they can reach out to and land.
  - anaerobicover 6y ago
    It might also help push them off the fence, as they see their cover from the sewage storm disappear.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
silicon2401 6y ago
Absolutely agree. I can't recommend enough that people look for new jobs as soon as they have major issues with their current one. Worst case, things improve and you just stop looking for a new one. Best case, you get a new job and things are way better. Even if the new job isn't amazing, at least the novelty and change of pace, plus the pride of having accomplished a new job, can recharge you enough to keep going. At my first job, I was incredibly unhappy due to various reasons. I started looking for a job, and because I was already under so much strain from the current job, it took almost a year to find a new job. If I had waited until the breaking point, it would've been even more difficult to find a job due to having to recover from the first job, and then slog through almost a year of applying. This isn't to scare people about the job market. But it's called a market for a reason. It's okay to have something today and look around for something better, even if what you have now isn't the worst thing ever.
- steveBK123 6y ago
  Yes I have this discussion with other people. You can interview and just.. not take the offers. The last couple places I left, I had offers up to a year or two before leaving but weighing cost-benefit, stayed at that time. It's better to have the option than not. And interviewing is truly not that much work. You don't have to be perfect. The less you need the job, the less the interview process should stress you. We call this "opportunistic interviewing". You can emphasize to the recruiter/HR/interviewer when pressed that - actually I'm happy where I am at the moment, but I am always up for a conversation and this sounded like it could be an interesting opportunity. You may find companies even respond more favorably in the interview process to you when you are somewhat aloof in this manner. You will also make connections with companies who may touch base from time to time to see if now is a better time to make the jump. This is infinitely better than having zero leads and feel like your life is going to hell before you even start looking.
  - anaerobicover 6y ago
    > You can emphasize to the recruiter/HR/interviewer when pressed that - actually I'm happy where I am at the moment, but I am always up for a conversation and this sounded like it could be an interesting opportunity. I agree with what you've said, but word of caution, this has to be handled with a bit of finesse, I think. I almost got passed over for a job because I said this and gave the recruiter the impression I wasn't that interested. I had a acquaintance on another team who mentioned it to me, and I did a little "damage control" with the hiring manager. I got a great offer in the end -- and it was a great job -- but without that contact I would probably have whiffed it.
system16 6y ago
Very true. I wasted nearly two years of my life at a toxic agency that prided itself on its culture and how the company was a family. I'd dread Sunday evening. The morning drive to the office was always filled with a sense of impending doom. The finger pointing during "stand up". The end of the world when a TPS report didn't have a cover sheet, and mandatory meeting to come up with yet another new process to prevent future disasters. Eventually I just said fuck this and gave my two weeks notice. I had a mortgage, was the sole earner in my family, and had nothing else lined up. I was scared, but so relieved to never have to go back there. One week later I was offered a job with a much better company and environment, for significantly higher salary. My only regret is not leaving sooner.
- vmception 6y ago
  For anyone else whose life is similar, I just want to say that I have had jobs where I truly enjoyed going to work. I only had the “sunday scaries” just to participate in the meme of hating work. But I was really anticipating picking up where I left off at work. So although you might find comraderie in other wage workers hating their life, still recognize that it is toxic and there are other realities that you are entitled to be in
  - efwfwef 6y ago
    This is really resonating with me, after two years in a job that had me think "I want to quit" by the weekly, it becomes the new normal and I can't imagine that a job can be stress-free, enjoyable, and provide good work-life balance. I just can't imagine that this exist. I just quit my current job, and I told myself that I will quit in less than 6 months if I don't like the new gig. Never again.
    - marcod 6y ago
      At one point I stopped being able to sleep on Sunday nights, dreading the work on Monday so much. Still took me way too long to put 2 and 2 together and leave...
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
I think what's missing from these discussions is that some people burn out really easy and some people aren't phased by the toxicity at all. Depending on the level of toxicity not everybody needs to cut and run. I know of a workplace where the boss is "verbally abusive" by white collar coastal standards (a real peace of work by blue collar middle America standards and a teddy bear by drill sergeant standards) and over the years people have cycled in and out and the people who've stayed are the ones who just let it roll right off and they're a really effective team.
IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago
There is also unemployment, which for a married/partnered dev should be sufficent to cover most rent and essentials in the interim. You may need to pare down your expenses a lot prior to quitting but that's why you quit. You trade your toys in exchange for your well being

by psyc 6y ago

marcod 6y ago

So true! I also lost about 2 years and my physical and mental health really deteriorated and 5 years later I'm still dealing with fallout. I was a manager under a toxic director, so I had the added pressure of making sure my team was all right. After most of them had found positions elsewhere, I finally left.

lazide 6y ago
For future reference, having done it both ways - finding a good out for yourself(and putting your oxygen mask on first) is usually better for the people under you too, as it shows them what they should be doing AND gives them (often) a place they can reach out to and land.
- anaerobicover 6y ago
  It might also help push them off the fence, as they see their cover from the sewage storm disappear.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

silicon2401 6y ago

Absolutely agree. I can't recommend enough that people look for new jobs as soon as they have major issues with their current one. Worst case, things improve and you just stop looking for a new one. Best case, you get a new job and things are way better. Even if the new job isn't amazing, at least the novelty and change of pace, plus the pride of having accomplished a new job, can recharge you enough to keep going. At my first job, I was incredibly unhappy due to various reasons. I started looking for a job, and because I was already under so much strain from the current job, it took almost a year to find a new job. If I had waited until the breaking point, it would've been even more difficult to find a job due to having to recover from the first job, and then slog through almost a year of applying. This isn't to scare people about the job market. But it's called a market for a reason. It's okay to have something today and look around for something better, even if what you have now isn't the worst thing ever.

steveBK123 6y ago
Yes I have this discussion with other people. You can interview and just.. not take the offers. The last couple places I left, I had offers up to a year or two before leaving but weighing cost-benefit, stayed at that time. It's better to have the option than not. And interviewing is truly not that much work. You don't have to be perfect. The less you need the job, the less the interview process should stress you. We call this "opportunistic interviewing". You can emphasize to the recruiter/HR/interviewer when pressed that - actually I'm happy where I am at the moment, but I am always up for a conversation and this sounded like it could be an interesting opportunity. You may find companies even respond more favorably in the interview process to you when you are somewhat aloof in this manner. You will also make connections with companies who may touch base from time to time to see if now is a better time to make the jump. This is infinitely better than having zero leads and feel like your life is going to hell before you even start looking.
- anaerobicover 6y ago
  > You can emphasize to the recruiter/HR/interviewer when pressed that - actually I'm happy where I am at the moment, but I am always up for a conversation and this sounded like it could be an interesting opportunity. I agree with what you've said, but word of caution, this has to be handled with a bit of finesse, I think. I almost got passed over for a job because I said this and gave the recruiter the impression I wasn't that interested. I had a acquaintance on another team who mentioned it to me, and I did a little "damage control" with the hiring manager. I got a great offer in the end -- and it was a great job -- but without that contact I would probably have whiffed it.

system16 6y ago

Very true. I wasted nearly two years of my life at a toxic agency that prided itself on its culture and how the company was a family. I'd dread Sunday evening. The morning drive to the office was always filled with a sense of impending doom. The finger pointing during "stand up". The end of the world when a TPS report didn't have a cover sheet, and mandatory meeting to come up with yet another new process to prevent future disasters. Eventually I just said fuck this and gave my two weeks notice. I had a mortgage, was the sole earner in my family, and had nothing else lined up. I was scared, but so relieved to never have to go back there. One week later I was offered a job with a much better company and environment, for significantly higher salary. My only regret is not leaving sooner.

vmception 6y ago
For anyone else whose life is similar, I just want to say that I have had jobs where I truly enjoyed going to work. I only had the “sunday scaries” just to participate in the meme of hating work. But I was really anticipating picking up where I left off at work. So although you might find comraderie in other wage workers hating their life, still recognize that it is toxic and there are other realities that you are entitled to be in
- efwfwef 6y ago
  This is really resonating with me, after two years in a job that had me think "I want to quit" by the weekly, it becomes the new normal and I can't imagine that a job can be stress-free, enjoyable, and provide good work-life balance. I just can't imagine that this exist. I just quit my current job, and I told myself that I will quit in less than 6 months if I don't like the new gig. Never again.
  - marcod 6y ago
    At one point I stopped being able to sleep on Sunday nights, dreading the work on Monday so much. Still took me way too long to put 2 and 2 together and leave...

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

I think what's missing from these discussions is that some people burn out really easy and some people aren't phased by the toxicity at all. Depending on the level of toxicity not everybody needs to cut and run. I know of a workplace where the boss is "verbally abusive" by white collar coastal standards (a real peace of work by blue collar middle America standards and a teddy bear by drill sergeant standards) and over the years people have cycled in and out and the people who've stayed are the ones who just let it roll right off and they're a really effective team.

IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago

There is also unemployment, which for a married/partnered dev should be sufficent to cover most rent and essentials in the interim. You may need to pare down your expenses a lot prior to quitting but that's why you quit. You trade your toys in exchange for your well being