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I like spyder a lot for the variable explorer, which makes it feel more like Matlab. However the constant bothering about installing Kite got annoying. Unfortu

I like spyder a lot for the variable explorer, which makes it feel more like Matlab. However the constant bothering about installing Kite got annoying. Unfortunately there isn't a way to use Kite and have it not constantly annoy you about upgrading to the enterprise edition. If Kite had a no ads plan for like ~ $10 a year it would make a lot more sense to integrate it in spyder.

generalizations 6y ago
Not to be trite, but there is a github repo and the license is MIT. I'd guess it's possible to find the relevant nag code (possibly in its own github commit), strip it out, and recompile. Edit. maybe this is what you're talking about? https://github.com/spyder-ide/spyder/commit/6b602af50f632cf669c922591bf140b4d4051875 https://github.com/spyder-ide/spyder/commit/6b602af50f632cf6...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- fock 6y ago
  but why is that even there? I guess that's just another reason to stay with emacs...
  - detaro 6y ago
    Sponsoring/buying things in exchange for kite promotion seems to be their MO - there was quite a bit of noise about the more brazen instances of it a while back when the used existing editor extensions to push their product or telemetry code (see e.g. https://theoutline.com/post/1953/how-a-vc-funded-company-is-undermining-the-open-source-community https://theoutline.com/post/1953/how-a-vc-funded-company-is-... and HN discussions about "kite")
  - ccordoba12 6y ago
    Well, this is the thing: code completion in Python is not a a simple task and we've struggled for years to improve it. Now we support the Language Server Protocol (designed by Microsoft for VSCode), but still things are not great, i.e. there are many things that can't be completed by Jedi, specially for scientific libraries. So, thanks to Kite's software, we implemented a client for it and now lightly promote it to our users, to offer them a possibility that works better, but it's completely optional. We also consulted our community before adding Kite integration and they were favorable to it, that's why we decided to proceed with the idea: https://twitter.com/Spyder_IDE/status/1138466325532217346 https://twitter.com/Spyder_IDE/status/1138466325532217346
    - generalsceptic 6y ago
      I can attest to that kite was only promoted once to me through anaconda... However, kite itself has gone above and beyond to try and nag me into buying their enterprise edition - it's only just made me hate the software. It will suggest "" completions at the top of the list, even for incredibly mundane completions, which is apparently a "premium completion" which almost immediately results in a nagging popup that requests that we purchase the enterprise edition because "you are out of your daily premium completions". If anything, I wish the spyder team would completely disallow kite to push their product in that kind of way, because it completely goes against what open-source projects stand for.
    - akiselev 6y ago
      > 147 Votes in 606 days
      - ccordoba12 6y ago
        At the time we did that poll we had ~1000 followers on Twitter, so that's 15% of our audience, which is pretty good for an online poll. But more important than that, we receive ~200 issues per month on Github (which makes us one of the projects in the PyData stack with higher values on this metric) and I don't remember a single one since we rolled out this feature that argued strongly to remove it. So either people dismiss our suggestion, or try it and decide if they like or not.
    - fock 6y ago
      Like a fellow poster said, that's easily manipulated, especially if the marketing of a VC-funded startup jumps on the train. My concern with this would be that you've arguably turned a nice free (as in freedom!), open-source-tool into a vehicle to push more or less proprietary and user-tracking code onto naive, unknowing users (though I guess that is not too uncommon in the anaconda-ecosystem you target - spack user and guix/nix-sympathiser here). Why make it a nagscreen (not sure about the extent of that), if you could just make it an option or a status message. For me you're now just competing with every proprietary python IDE, which basically drops you of my list of tools to use or recommend (one can also use free PyCharm or VSCode or RStudio then, where you know, what you get...)
- Vaslo 6y ago
  I would say the average person using spyder would have no idea how to do this. They program as if they are in R and not Python, so it’s short procedures in certain packages.
ccordoba12 6y ago
(Spyder maintainer here) Kite is completely optional for Spyder. If you don't like it, you can uninstall it and Spyder will continue working without any issues.
- kleiba 6y ago
  Is there an option to not install Kite in the first place?
  - buo 6y ago
    I have installed Spyder both from its own repo, and using Anaconda, and I don't have Kite. I don't recall doing anything special during installation.
    - ccordoba12 6y ago
      Thanks for the confirmation @buo. There's really nothing special about installing Spyder, i.e. we don't install Kite behind the scenes or anything like that.
  - ccordoba12 6y ago
    I don't understand your question. Kite doesn't come pre-installed with Spyder. We only show a dialog once informing users that Spyder can use Kite to improve code completions in our editor. After that, if a completion can't be provided by Jedi but it could by Kite, we show another message, which can dismissed entirely. Both things don't force you to install Kite, but also show a button in case you want to do it within Spyder.
  - greatgoat420 6y ago
    The issue isn't it installing Kite, it is the messages about installing Kite that bothered me.
    - ccordoba12 6y ago
      As I said, it's a two times thing, but if it bothers you so much, we could a command line option to disable those messages completely. Would that be ok?
mkl 6y ago
Constant? I only got asked once, on first use. I said no. I still consider it a bit rude in an open source program though.
- ccordoba12 6y ago
  They funded us to implement this feature: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26042582 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26042582 But we also consider it a nice suggestion to our users, for a feature they've asked for years to make more reliable and robust.
nonbirithm 6y ago
Also, never forget that they've bought out Atom extensions in the past to insert promotions for Kite. https://github.com/atom-minimap/minimap/issues/588#issuecomment-299040220 https://github.com/atom-minimap/minimap/issues/588#issuecomm... https://github.com/autocomplete-python/autocomplete-python/issues/308 https://github.com/autocomplete-python/autocomplete-python/i... Edit: Related HN thread with ~400 comments. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14836653 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14836653
- ccordoba12 6y ago
  We were aware of that and very careful to not allow something like it for Spyder users.
  - nonbirithm 6y ago
    I mean, the point isn't that Kite can't succeed at integrating with third party tools in less user-hostlile ways. The point is that I'm not touching Kite with a thousand-foot pole after what they've done in the past. The trust has been lost. And the idea that it "nags" you to install Kite seems to indicate that money has traded hands somewhere, as in this is an advertisement. It just seems like much the same as before.
- disabled 6y ago
  Thanks for the info. I stopped using Spyder over the annoying and distracting promotions. This confirms my feelings about it. It is also time consuming to properly install from source, via GitHub, versus Anaconda. It does have a learning curve in that sense, even for someone pretty experienced. I am currently using Atom. I may switch to Sublime Text and add extensions to make it a Python IDE.

generalizations 6y ago

Not to be trite, but there is a github repo and the license is MIT. I'd guess it's possible to find the relevant nag code (possibly in its own github commit), strip it out, and recompile. Edit. maybe this is what you're talking about? https://github.com/spyder-ide/spyder/commit/6b602af50f632cf669c922591bf140b4d4051875 https://github.com/spyder-ide/spyder/commit/6b602af50f632cf6...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
fock 6y ago
but why is that even there? I guess that's just another reason to stay with emacs...
- detaro 6y ago
  Sponsoring/buying things in exchange for kite promotion seems to be their MO - there was quite a bit of noise about the more brazen instances of it a while back when the used existing editor extensions to push their product or telemetry code (see e.g. https://theoutline.com/post/1953/how-a-vc-funded-company-is-undermining-the-open-source-community https://theoutline.com/post/1953/how-a-vc-funded-company-is-... and HN discussions about "kite")
- ccordoba12 6y ago
  Well, this is the thing: code completion in Python is not a a simple task and we've struggled for years to improve it. Now we support the Language Server Protocol (designed by Microsoft for VSCode), but still things are not great, i.e. there are many things that can't be completed by Jedi, specially for scientific libraries. So, thanks to Kite's software, we implemented a client for it and now lightly promote it to our users, to offer them a possibility that works better, but it's completely optional. We also consulted our community before adding Kite integration and they were favorable to it, that's why we decided to proceed with the idea: https://twitter.com/Spyder_IDE/status/1138466325532217346 https://twitter.com/Spyder_IDE/status/1138466325532217346
  - generalsceptic 6y ago
    I can attest to that kite was only promoted once to me through anaconda... However, kite itself has gone above and beyond to try and nag me into buying their enterprise edition - it's only just made me hate the software. It will suggest "" completions at the top of the list, even for incredibly mundane completions, which is apparently a "premium completion" which almost immediately results in a nagging popup that requests that we purchase the enterprise edition because "you are out of your daily premium completions". If anything, I wish the spyder team would completely disallow kite to push their product in that kind of way, because it completely goes against what open-source projects stand for.
  - akiselev 6y ago
    > 147 Votes in 606 days
    - ccordoba12 6y ago
      At the time we did that poll we had ~1000 followers on Twitter, so that's 15% of our audience, which is pretty good for an online poll. But more important than that, we receive ~200 issues per month on Github (which makes us one of the projects in the PyData stack with higher values on this metric) and I don't remember a single one since we rolled out this feature that argued strongly to remove it. So either people dismiss our suggestion, or try it and decide if they like or not.
  - fock 6y ago
    Like a fellow poster said, that's easily manipulated, especially if the marketing of a VC-funded startup jumps on the train. My concern with this would be that you've arguably turned a nice free (as in freedom!), open-source-tool into a vehicle to push more or less proprietary and user-tracking code onto naive, unknowing users (though I guess that is not too uncommon in the anaconda-ecosystem you target - spack user and guix/nix-sympathiser here). Why make it a nagscreen (not sure about the extent of that), if you could just make it an option or a status message. For me you're now just competing with every proprietary python IDE, which basically drops you of my list of tools to use or recommend (one can also use free PyCharm or VSCode or RStudio then, where you know, what you get...)
Vaslo 6y ago
I would say the average person using spyder would have no idea how to do this. They program as if they are in R and not Python, so it’s short procedures in certain packages.

ccordoba12 6y ago

(Spyder maintainer here) Kite is completely optional for Spyder. If you don't like it, you can uninstall it and Spyder will continue working without any issues.

kleiba 6y ago
Is there an option to not install Kite in the first place?
- buo 6y ago
  I have installed Spyder both from its own repo, and using Anaconda, and I don't have Kite. I don't recall doing anything special during installation.
  - ccordoba12 6y ago
    Thanks for the confirmation @buo. There's really nothing special about installing Spyder, i.e. we don't install Kite behind the scenes or anything like that.
- ccordoba12 6y ago
  I don't understand your question. Kite doesn't come pre-installed with Spyder. We only show a dialog once informing users that Spyder can use Kite to improve code completions in our editor. After that, if a completion can't be provided by Jedi but it could by Kite, we show another message, which can dismissed entirely. Both things don't force you to install Kite, but also show a button in case you want to do it within Spyder.
- greatgoat420 6y ago
  The issue isn't it installing Kite, it is the messages about installing Kite that bothered me.
  - ccordoba12 6y ago
    As I said, it's a two times thing, but if it bothers you so much, we could a command line option to disable those messages completely. Would that be ok?

mkl 6y ago

Constant? I only got asked once, on first use. I said no. I still consider it a bit rude in an open source program though.

ccordoba12 6y ago
They funded us to implement this feature: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26042582 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26042582 But we also consider it a nice suggestion to our users, for a feature they've asked for years to make more reliable and robust.

nonbirithm 6y ago

Also, never forget that they've bought out Atom extensions in the past to insert promotions for Kite. https://github.com/atom-minimap/minimap/issues/588#issuecomment-299040220 https://github.com/atom-minimap/minimap/issues/588#issuecomm... https://github.com/autocomplete-python/autocomplete-python/issues/308 https://github.com/autocomplete-python/autocomplete-python/i... Edit: Related HN thread with ~400 comments. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14836653 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14836653

ccordoba12 6y ago
We were aware of that and very careful to not allow something like it for Spyder users.
- nonbirithm 6y ago
  I mean, the point isn't that Kite can't succeed at integrating with third party tools in less user-hostlile ways. The point is that I'm not touching Kite with a thousand-foot pole after what they've done in the past. The trust has been lost. And the idea that it "nags" you to install Kite seems to indicate that money has traded hands somewhere, as in this is an advertisement. It just seems like much the same as before.
disabled 6y ago
Thanks for the info. I stopped using Spyder over the annoying and distracting promotions. This confirms my feelings about it. It is also time consuming to properly install from source, via GitHub, versus Anaconda. It does have a learning curve in that sense, even for someone pretty experienced. I am currently using Atom. I may switch to Sublime Text and add extensions to make it a Python IDE.