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Just to summarize for my own understanding/fascination: this person DIY's 500 doses of nasal-spray COVID-19 vaccine for $1000 using ingredients and tools off of

by lxe 6y ago

Just to summarize for my own understanding/fascination: this person DIY's 500 doses of nasal-spray COVID-19 vaccine for $1000 using ingredients and tools off of Amazon and easy-to-source synthesized peptides with minimal skill?

habryka 6y ago
Yes, though the vaccine is likely to have substantially less efficacy than current mRNA based vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna, though I think it's promising enough that some level of efficacy (like idk. maybe 50%, who knows) doesn't seem out of the question (whereas Moderna and Pfizer are likely 90%+).
- SahAssar 6y ago
  > 50% efficacy doesn't seem out of the question Is there anything at all to back up that figure? Like, seriously, anything at all? I'd be very interested to hear if there was, but again, are there any hard numbers from studies of success rates of this? Or even self-reported numbers?
  - avs733 6y ago
    no. the actual efficacy on this isn't 50% or 100% or 0% is is unknown. The value of the vaccines is in part that there is evidence to backup that they work, they aren't dangerous, they are formulated properly and consistently.
  - habryka 6y ago
    I suggested 50% as more of an upper bound. My current guess is I would be very surprised if these have very high efficacy, based on a number of studies on kind of similar vaccines I remember reading. I think the most likely outcome is that these have 0% efficacy, though I also wouldn't put less than 10% probability on them having between 20% and 50%. But yeah, these are all just random guesses. Probably some biologists have better models here that could allow them to make better predictions, but there is no hard data.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
maxerickson 6y ago
They exposed their nasal tissues to peptides from the virus. You could call it an inoculation. I think it is okay to reserve 'vaccine' for something a bit more fine tuned and tested.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  Revisiting this, the difference in definition between vaccine and inoculation probably isn't so big. I think colloquially it is a good difference here.
  - gus_massa 6y ago
    I prefer to use "vaccine candidate", so it's clear that is not a well tested vaccine that passed all the usual clinical trials.
- LinuxBender 6y ago
  Reflecting back on vaccinating my own animals, several of the vaccinations involved injecting a liquid into their noses. I don't recall which vaccinations exactly, it's been a long time. This was the method tested and approved by veterinarians.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    My quibble isn't with the method of administration, it's with this being essentially a one off experiment each time it's done, vs the work that goes into proving immune response and effectiveness and consistent manufacturing of commercial vaccines.
    - LinuxBender 6y ago
      Makes sense. I have conflicting thoughts on biohacking. One one hand, the people doing it often have little scientific background and have very dodgy testing methods. On the other hand, if people are open to self experimentation, they could accidentally stumble onto something great. Or bad. Or random unintended findings or consequences. I could also see businesses being intimidated by these practices, as these people could render some chemicals obsolete, also by mistake. So many pros and cons.
rossdavidh 6y ago
Well, if we assume that your immune system takes a look at something that showed up in your nasal membranes once, and never reproduced, and said "that looks like a big problem we should learn how to make antibodies against". It is entirely possible that your immune system is smart enough to take a look at that and say "that looks like a bunch of inert junk", and does nothing, because it doesn't need to.
xirbeosbwo1234 6y ago
This person DIY's 500 doses of nasal-spray something-or-other. There is no evidence it's effective and little evidence it's safe. Want a good laugh? Here's the research team: https://radvac.org/researchers-map/ https://radvac.org/researchers-map/ See how many obviously fake identities you can find.
refurb 6y ago
Yes, except there is zero proof this “vaccine” works so until that time, it’s all just conjecture.

by lxe 6y ago

habryka 6y ago

Yes, though the vaccine is likely to have substantially less efficacy than current mRNA based vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna, though I think it's promising enough that some level of efficacy (like idk. maybe 50%, who knows) doesn't seem out of the question (whereas Moderna and Pfizer are likely 90%+).

SahAssar 6y ago
> 50% efficacy doesn't seem out of the question Is there anything at all to back up that figure? Like, seriously, anything at all? I'd be very interested to hear if there was, but again, are there any hard numbers from studies of success rates of this? Or even self-reported numbers?
- avs733 6y ago
  no. the actual efficacy on this isn't 50% or 100% or 0% is is unknown. The value of the vaccines is in part that there is evidence to backup that they work, they aren't dangerous, they are formulated properly and consistently.
- habryka 6y ago
  I suggested 50% as more of an upper bound. My current guess is I would be very surprised if these have very high efficacy, based on a number of studies on kind of similar vaccines I remember reading. I think the most likely outcome is that these have 0% efficacy, though I also wouldn't put less than 10% probability on them having between 20% and 50%. But yeah, these are all just random guesses. Probably some biologists have better models here that could allow them to make better predictions, but there is no hard data.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

maxerickson 6y ago

They exposed their nasal tissues to peptides from the virus. You could call it an inoculation. I think it is okay to reserve 'vaccine' for something a bit more fine tuned and tested.

maxerickson 6y ago
Revisiting this, the difference in definition between vaccine and inoculation probably isn't so big. I think colloquially it is a good difference here.
- gus_massa 6y ago
  I prefer to use "vaccine candidate", so it's clear that is not a well tested vaccine that passed all the usual clinical trials.
LinuxBender 6y ago
Reflecting back on vaccinating my own animals, several of the vaccinations involved injecting a liquid into their noses. I don't recall which vaccinations exactly, it's been a long time. This was the method tested and approved by veterinarians.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  My quibble isn't with the method of administration, it's with this being essentially a one off experiment each time it's done, vs the work that goes into proving immune response and effectiveness and consistent manufacturing of commercial vaccines.
  - LinuxBender 6y ago
    Makes sense. I have conflicting thoughts on biohacking. One one hand, the people doing it often have little scientific background and have very dodgy testing methods. On the other hand, if people are open to self experimentation, they could accidentally stumble onto something great. Or bad. Or random unintended findings or consequences. I could also see businesses being intimidated by these practices, as these people could render some chemicals obsolete, also by mistake. So many pros and cons.

rossdavidh 6y ago

Well, if we assume that your immune system takes a look at something that showed up in your nasal membranes once, and never reproduced, and said "that looks like a big problem we should learn how to make antibodies against". It is entirely possible that your immune system is smart enough to take a look at that and say "that looks like a bunch of inert junk", and does nothing, because it doesn't need to.

xirbeosbwo1234 6y ago

This person DIY's 500 doses of nasal-spray something-or-other. There is no evidence it's effective and little evidence it's safe. Want a good laugh? Here's the research team: https://radvac.org/researchers-map/ https://radvac.org/researchers-map/ See how many obviously fake identities you can find.

refurb 6y ago

Yes, except there is zero proof this “vaccine” works so until that time, it’s all just conjecture.