4 ms·

What AAA games exist in C#?

NortySpock 6y ago
Kerbal Space Program, for one https://unity3d.com/showcase/case-stories/squad-kerbal-space-program https://unity3d.com/showcase/case-stories/squad-kerbal-space...
- kvark 6y ago
  Isn't Unity itself written in C++?
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Isn't Rust itself built with a C++ based compiler, and binding to 3D system libraries written in C and C++?
    - zesterer 6y ago
      There's a pretty big difference here though. In the case of Unity, most of the very hot code is C++. With a custom Rust engine, most of it is Rust.
      - pjmlp 6y ago
        On modern engines most of the hot code are GPGPU shaders, specially on cards modern enough to support mesh shaders. Secondly, there is the ongoing rewrite from C++ into HPC#. Third, I still remember the days when Pascal, Basic and C compilers were deemed worthless for professional game engines, followed by similar remarks to C++, back when Abrash books were still hot of the press. Finally, languages don't dictate how fun games are and how much they sell.
    - steveklabnik 6y ago
      Depends on how you define “c++ based compiler.” In the sense that it uses a library written in C++, yes, but “based” is kind of a stretch. It is an important one but not irreplaceable.
      - pjmlp 6y ago
        Yeah, I am splitting hairs on purpose, because at the end of the way winning benchmarks on the playground is meaningless on the business side. Yes, Unity uses C++ in the core engine, just like in the old days the first wave of games written in C were full of inline Assembly, while the first wave of Objective-C and C++ games were plain old C. Yet the Switch has outsold the DS, and Unity powers more than 50% of the games sold on the platform. C# 9 is at the same level as D and Nim, minus a couple of little things that could still be added. To the point that with .NET 5, Microsoft has started to rewrite the runtime in C#, whereas Unity is slowly porting the rendering pipeline into the HPC# subset. So if they would decide to have Unity on D or Nim, compiled with the LLVM compilers, which kind of discussion would we be having, which compiler makes clever use of LLVM IR?
        generichuman 6y ago
        > C# 9 is at the same level as D and Nim What do you mean? How does one reach D/Nim levels of performance (or did you mean expressivity) in C#? I'm experimenting with Nim for gamedev these days, I might be persuaded to take another look at C# depending on your answer. Also, what is the HPC# subset? Any resources to read about that?
        pjmlp 6y ago
        As of .NET 5 and C# 9 (also applies partially to F# and VB) you can: - use structs like in C - do safe stack allocations for arrays - use GC free heap allocations and map them to memory slices - GC free code regions - static lambdas - machine numeric types - static lambdas - native function pointers - native sized numeric types - more control over structs layout and usage - using available in any type that implements Dispose pattern even if the interface isn't adopted - you can make use of Roslyn to ensure using is not forgotten - unsafe and native pointers - vector types for SIMD, NEON and AVX - you can generate MSIL on the fly similarly to what C++/CLI compiler would have done. Naturally this trick requires unsafe Assemblies. HPC# is a C# subset created by Unity with the long term roadmap goal to replace C++ on Unity. Although it looks like a C# subset and plain .NET types, there is a new compiler, Burst, that is aware of those special types. There is also an ECS framework that goes alongside it, DOTS. The founding members of the projects are ex Psygnosis employees well known in the C++ community. https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/com.unity.burst@1.5/manual/index.html https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/com.unity.burst@1.5/manual... https://youtu.be/BpwvXkoFcp8 https://youtu.be/BpwvXkoFcp8 https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLX2vGYjWbI0QRLkvupULwSZCPkLyHs-UX https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLX2vGYjWbI0QRLkvupULwSZCP...

Kerbal Space Program, for one https://unity3d.com/showcase/case-stories/squad-kerbal-space-program https://unity3d.com/showcase/case-stories/squad-kerbal-space...

kvark 6y ago
Isn't Unity itself written in C++?
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Isn't Rust itself built with a C++ based compiler, and binding to 3D system libraries written in C and C++?
  - zesterer 6y ago
    There's a pretty big difference here though. In the case of Unity, most of the very hot code is C++. With a custom Rust engine, most of it is Rust.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      On modern engines most of the hot code are GPGPU shaders, specially on cards modern enough to support mesh shaders. Secondly, there is the ongoing rewrite from C++ into HPC#. Third, I still remember the days when Pascal, Basic and C compilers were deemed worthless for professional game engines, followed by similar remarks to C++, back when Abrash books were still hot of the press. Finally, languages don't dictate how fun games are and how much they sell.
  - steveklabnik 6y ago
    Depends on how you define “c++ based compiler.” In the sense that it uses a library written in C++, yes, but “based” is kind of a stretch. It is an important one but not irreplaceable.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Yeah, I am splitting hairs on purpose, because at the end of the way winning benchmarks on the playground is meaningless on the business side. Yes, Unity uses C++ in the core engine, just like in the old days the first wave of games written in C were full of inline Assembly, while the first wave of Objective-C and C++ games were plain old C. Yet the Switch has outsold the DS, and Unity powers more than 50% of the games sold on the platform. C# 9 is at the same level as D and Nim, minus a couple of little things that could still be added. To the point that with .NET 5, Microsoft has started to rewrite the runtime in C#, whereas Unity is slowly porting the rendering pipeline into the HPC# subset. So if they would decide to have Unity on D or Nim, compiled with the LLVM compilers, which kind of discussion would we be having, which compiler makes clever use of LLVM IR?
      - generichuman 6y ago
        > C# 9 is at the same level as D and Nim What do you mean? How does one reach D/Nim levels of performance (or did you mean expressivity) in C#? I'm experimenting with Nim for gamedev these days, I might be persuaded to take another look at C# depending on your answer. Also, what is the HPC# subset? Any resources to read about that?
        pjmlp 6y ago
        As of .NET 5 and C# 9 (also applies partially to F# and VB) you can: - use structs like in C - do safe stack allocations for arrays - use GC free heap allocations and map them to memory slices - GC free code regions - static lambdas - machine numeric types - static lambdas - native function pointers - native sized numeric types - more control over structs layout and usage - using available in any type that implements Dispose pattern even if the interface isn't adopted - you can make use of Roslyn to ensure using is not forgotten - unsafe and native pointers - vector types for SIMD, NEON and AVX - you can generate MSIL on the fly similarly to what C++/CLI compiler would have done. Naturally this trick requires unsafe Assemblies. HPC# is a C# subset created by Unity with the long term roadmap goal to replace C++ on Unity. Although it looks like a C# subset and plain .NET types, there is a new compiler, Burst, that is aware of those special types. There is also an ECS framework that goes alongside it, DOTS. The founding members of the projects are ex Psygnosis employees well known in the C++ community. https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/com.unity.burst@1.5/manual/index.html https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/com.unity.burst@1.5/manual... https://youtu.be/BpwvXkoFcp8 https://youtu.be/BpwvXkoFcp8 https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLX2vGYjWbI0QRLkvupULwSZCPkLyHs-UX https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLX2vGYjWbI0QRLkvupULwSZCP...