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You get 2-3x the pay without converting. The median salary for a senior in Toronto and Van right now is around 150-170 TC, and that is generally the type of sal

You get 2-3x the pay without converting. The median salary for a senior in Toronto and Van right now is around 150-170 TC, and that is generally the type of salary you're getting from the FAANGS here. Some might push above 200k, but you need to be exceptional and do very well in the interview. There is a reason Canada's top grads leave to the US right away. The CoL is lower in America. It might be comparable if you try to buy a house in Manhattan or the bay area, but the suburbs are good options and the commutes are no worse than GTA to Downtown or GVA to Downtown Van. There is a 46% premium on housing between Canada and the USA, adjusted for exchange. Also every day life can be generally cheaper (groceries, gas which is about half the cost, cell phone and internet service etc.). The big differentiator between Canada and the US is social. Our socialized healthcare is subpar to the type of healthcare you get through the private plans you'll get working at big tech companies. Wait time are long, and governments don't pay for the most up to date procedures. I'm speaking first hand. Schools are the other big thing. Where you live in the US really determines the quality of education your kids receive, but if you're getting paid FAANG salaries you're fine. Anyway, again, as my note mentioned, I'm not here to discuss the merits of the Canadian tech market. I only posted this to dispel the notion that the US is worse. It's not, and the supposed benefits in Canada objectively are not there. Subjectively they might be. Everyone is welcome to their opinion.

oangemangut 6y ago
Yeah, I guess we're getting a bit off track, but go into a US grocery store in one of your target markets and the prices will not look different unless you convert, and then you'll see they are more expensive. Daycare in the big tech centers, in areas with good schools, costs MORE than Vancouver/Toronto/Montreal before converting. Since we've be here for a family our experiences with healthcare haven't been that different than Canada (normal checkups, 1 delivery in Canada 1 delivery in US), except that we've paid 5-10K per year in out of pocket + another 5K in premiums per year. Finally - if you go gown on TN, if you have a partner that's coming with you they can't work. And it's a long and annoying slog going from TN -> H1B -> GC. Just food for thought. Anyways, when you're talking about tier 2/3 companies (especially non-tech) you're not making 300USD+ in US either, especially in secondary markets. As someone who moved to Bay area to 'tier 2'company, initially as in SWE but now in MLE, the big benefits are the depth of the job market: it's not hard to find a high(ish) TC gig around here, and you can easily shift to another US tech center (which doesn't seem to happen as much in Canada) and the increased savings rate of converted CAD dollars we'll use in Victoria when we return.
- rafiki6 6y ago
  Yes I've researched all this. My partner is TN eligible as well. And yes, dollar figure costs are same, that's exactly my point. CoL from a magnitude is the same when exchange is excluded, but salaries are higher and more opportunities. I exclude exchange because I would earn USD in America. And yes, this is why I'm targeting Tier 2 companies. If CoL is the same when thinking dollar figure, if I got to bay area and earn 170-200k (lower end for senior), and eventually make shift to areas with lower CoL overall and lower salary, fine so be it. Maybe I'll find my way into a Tier 1 eventually with enough Leetcoding. Point is the market is so much bigger in the US and so many more livable metros than Canada. Also on the note of daycare, unless you manage to get into subsidized daycare (impossible essentially), you're paying 2k minimum a month. And as for healthcare, the best deal is living in low or no income tax state. That is the ultimate goal long term. Even Cali vs. Ontario or Van, taxes overall a bit lower. At least the premiums you pay for get you high quality superior healthcare.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - aprdm 6y ago
    I do not think 170k USD in SF is better than 170k CAD in VAN/TORONTO. 170k CAD in VAN/TORONTO isn't impossible to make for seniors.
  - oangemangut 6y ago
    In bay we paid roughly 60K USD for an infant and a toddler, and had them in different daycares for a while due to waitlists. In Vancouver it would have been in the 40s, CAD.
  - growmn 6y ago
    Careful about the notion that you make 170-200k Check levels.FYI
theflyinghorse 6y ago
> The median salary for a senior in Toronto and Van right now is around 150-170 TC Recently interviewed with a couple of startups from Toronto. 95-110k seems to be the offer range (6 yoe dev Java, node, react). I wasn't aware that anyone could make above 120k in Canada as a tech IC.

oangemangut 6y ago

Yeah, I guess we're getting a bit off track, but go into a US grocery store in one of your target markets and the prices will not look different unless you convert, and then you'll see they are more expensive. Daycare in the big tech centers, in areas with good schools, costs MORE than Vancouver/Toronto/Montreal before converting. Since we've be here for a family our experiences with healthcare haven't been that different than Canada (normal checkups, 1 delivery in Canada 1 delivery in US), except that we've paid 5-10K per year in out of pocket + another 5K in premiums per year. Finally - if you go gown on TN, if you have a partner that's coming with you they can't work. And it's a long and annoying slog going from TN -> H1B -> GC. Just food for thought. Anyways, when you're talking about tier 2/3 companies (especially non-tech) you're not making 300USD+ in US either, especially in secondary markets. As someone who moved to Bay area to 'tier 2'company, initially as in SWE but now in MLE, the big benefits are the depth of the job market: it's not hard to find a high(ish) TC gig around here, and you can easily shift to another US tech center (which doesn't seem to happen as much in Canada) and the increased savings rate of converted CAD dollars we'll use in Victoria when we return.

rafiki6 6y ago
Yes I've researched all this. My partner is TN eligible as well. And yes, dollar figure costs are same, that's exactly my point. CoL from a magnitude is the same when exchange is excluded, but salaries are higher and more opportunities. I exclude exchange because I would earn USD in America. And yes, this is why I'm targeting Tier 2 companies. If CoL is the same when thinking dollar figure, if I got to bay area and earn 170-200k (lower end for senior), and eventually make shift to areas with lower CoL overall and lower salary, fine so be it. Maybe I'll find my way into a Tier 1 eventually with enough Leetcoding. Point is the market is so much bigger in the US and so many more livable metros than Canada. Also on the note of daycare, unless you manage to get into subsidized daycare (impossible essentially), you're paying 2k minimum a month. And as for healthcare, the best deal is living in low or no income tax state. That is the ultimate goal long term. Even Cali vs. Ontario or Van, taxes overall a bit lower. At least the premiums you pay for get you high quality superior healthcare.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- aprdm 6y ago
  I do not think 170k USD in SF is better than 170k CAD in VAN/TORONTO. 170k CAD in VAN/TORONTO isn't impossible to make for seniors.
- oangemangut 6y ago
  In bay we paid roughly 60K USD for an infant and a toddler, and had them in different daycares for a while due to waitlists. In Vancouver it would have been in the 40s, CAD.
- growmn 6y ago
  Careful about the notion that you make 170-200k Check levels.FYI

theflyinghorse 6y ago

> The median salary for a senior in Toronto and Van right now is around 150-170 TC Recently interviewed with a couple of startups from Toronto. 95-110k seems to be the offer range (6 yoe dev Java, node, react). I wasn't aware that anyone could make above 120k in Canada as a tech IC.