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> They left to practice their religion in a place where they wouldn't be burned as a heretic. Not true, at least in the obvious case of the Pilgrims of Plymout

> They left to practice their religion in a place where they wouldn't be burned as a heretic. Not true, at least in the obvious case of the Pilgrims of Plymouth. They were perfectly free to practice their religion when they lived in the Netherlands. They moved away because they wanted to create their own strict theocratic colony. The Netherlands, in their eyes, had too much religious freedom.

DigiDigiorno 6y ago
Even that specific example is a bit of a gray area imo. They were persecuted in England and tried to live in the Netherlands but found life hard to adjust and were also wanting to keep their English identity. So, it is more of persecution by the Church of England that pushed them away. The Netherlands do get a point here for tolerance imo.
- mullingitover 6y ago
  True, but the point stands: they weren't fleeing persecution. Furthermore, they enthusiastically, viciously persecuted other religious groups in North America. > "For the Puritans, the “Lord’s Kingdom” did not include Quakers, and the Rev. Norton is known as the chief instigator of the persecution of Quakers in New England. He is quoted as saying, “I would carry fire in one hand and faggots in the other, to burn all the Quakers in the world.” The punishment for a Quaker to set foot in Massachusetts in 1660 was death by hanging."[1] > "From Puritan Boston’s earliest days, Catholics (“Papists”) were anathema and were banned from the colonies, along with other non-Puritans. Four Quakers were hanged in Boston between 1659 and 1661 for persistently returning to the city to stand up for their beliefs."[2] [1] https://historicipswich.org/2015/10/13/persecution-of-quakers-by-the-puritans/ https://historicipswich.org/2015/10/13/persecution-of-quaker... [2] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/americas-true-history-of-religious-tolerance-61312684/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/americas-true-history...
mensetmanusman 6y ago
There is a lot of debate over why they moved. e.g. -running out of room -economics -impending war -wanting to venture into the unknown https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/91317/holland-first-stop-for-the-pilgrims https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/91317/holland-first...

DigiDigiorno 6y ago

Even that specific example is a bit of a gray area imo. They were persecuted in England and tried to live in the Netherlands but found life hard to adjust and were also wanting to keep their English identity. So, it is more of persecution by the Church of England that pushed them away. The Netherlands do get a point here for tolerance imo.

mullingitover 6y ago
True, but the point stands: they weren't fleeing persecution. Furthermore, they enthusiastically, viciously persecuted other religious groups in North America. > "For the Puritans, the “Lord’s Kingdom” did not include Quakers, and the Rev. Norton is known as the chief instigator of the persecution of Quakers in New England. He is quoted as saying, “I would carry fire in one hand and faggots in the other, to burn all the Quakers in the world.” The punishment for a Quaker to set foot in Massachusetts in 1660 was death by hanging."[1] > "From Puritan Boston’s earliest days, Catholics (“Papists”) were anathema and were banned from the colonies, along with other non-Puritans. Four Quakers were hanged in Boston between 1659 and 1661 for persistently returning to the city to stand up for their beliefs."[2] [1] https://historicipswich.org/2015/10/13/persecution-of-quakers-by-the-puritans/ https://historicipswich.org/2015/10/13/persecution-of-quaker... [2] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/americas-true-history-of-religious-tolerance-61312684/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/americas-true-history...

mensetmanusman 6y ago

There is a lot of debate over why they moved. e.g. -running out of room -economics -impending war -wanting to venture into the unknown https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/91317/holland-first-stop-for-the-pilgrims https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/91317/holland-first...