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Such hyperbolic accusations aren't limited to MTG; see the effort to accuse Lauren Boebert of endangering her colleagues by allegedly carrying weapons onto the

Such hyperbolic accusations aren't limited to MTG; see the effort to accuse Lauren Boebert of endangering her colleagues by allegedly carrying weapons onto the House floor (open carry is part of her schtick) or allegedly endangering the life of the Speaker of the House by "tweeting her location" (in reference to a tweet that said that the Speaker was being evacuated). Reframing controversial political disagreements as uncontroversial issues of personal safety is a cancel culture trope that has worked well elsewhere and now being imported into our political life. Hence the ongoing theater with metal detectors and armed military guards, as well as the baseless accusations that legislators pose some physical risk to their colleagues and must therefore be expelled.

tptacek 6y ago
I don't know, I think you're both a little off here. You're confident MTG doesn't actually mean it when she talks about assassinating politicians. That may be the case. But she's talking about it with people who do mean it. Somebody comes up to you and sincerely starts a discussion about hanging the traitors, and you play along with them? That's on you. It's not a hyperbolic accusation. (I don't think Boebert is in quite the same league, but give it time).
- idlewords 6y ago
  If she's doing something criminal, then charge her. But I think the issue here is that she is associating with extremists, and our political clique considers such behavior beyond the pale. Unfortunately, that norm no longer exists in the other party. The traditional remedy for such extremism was to expose the links to voters, who would be duly horrified and vote her out. But MTG's voters knew exactly who they were electing, and I will wager that she wins again with ease in 2022. She is now a culture hero thanks to the Democratic legislators who voted against her. Overriding the voters' decision based on our own notions of propriety, in the name of saving democracy, is a sure path to ruin. As long as her conduct is lawful, there is no defensible way to get her out of Congress except the hard way.
  - tptacek 6y ago
    I think I agree with you about proposals to remove MTG and Boebert from Congress altogether. Ultimately, the choice of the voters in a district is a big deal, and I can clearly see the bad places this goes if every district is subject to a majoritarian check from Congress itself --- which I'm betting we lose in 2 years anyways. But not seating MTG (or maybe Boebert) on committees seems like less of a problem, and it doesn't seem any less legitimate to me when the majority of the House does it to MTG than when the Republicans themselves did it to Steve King; in both cases, it wasn't the will of the voters that elected these people that created the consequences. Also: it took a long time to get Steve King out, and an superheroic amount of effort from JD Scholten, who had to know his chances were slim and kept fighting anyways; I don't know that you can expect Scholtens to keep appearing to fend these monsters off. But just looping back to the subject of the thread: there's a "rule of goats" thing about wishcasting the assassination of a political opponent, and, in collaborating with people who are almost certainly not being ironic in discussing the possibility, MTG has gone way beyond being an ironic goatfucker.
    - idlewords 6y ago
      I think there's a world of difference between kicking someone in your own party off of committees, and doing it to someone in the opposing party. I also think it's defeatist to assume the only way to be rid of extremists in the House is by procedural fiat.
      - tptacek 6y ago
        I guess I agree with the second claim and not the first.
- rayiner 6y ago
  Is she talking with people who “do mean it?” I can’t find any articles describing who she was talking to. Maybe I’m just uninformed. But that seems like the talk that is pervasive in anonymous chat boards (there’s even one for law students called autoadmit—it’s a cesspool). All that stuff is leaking out into real name services now. But I’m not convinced these people are really plotting to kill anyone.
  - tptacek 6y ago
    They aren't all plotting to kill anyone. But enough of them are that Capitol was stormed by a mob that beat a police officer to death with a fire extinguisher and a plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan was foiled. And MTG knows that. She's opted herself into culpability for the actions of these people by vigorously and repeatedly endorsing them --- and specifically them, and specifically their violent actions. I think people do hyperventilate about right-wing conspiracy nutjobs. But lending institutional support to actual insurrectionists isn't just Twitter drama.

tptacek 6y ago

I don't know, I think you're both a little off here. You're confident MTG doesn't actually mean it when she talks about assassinating politicians. That may be the case. But she's talking about it with people who do mean it. Somebody comes up to you and sincerely starts a discussion about hanging the traitors, and you play along with them? That's on you. It's not a hyperbolic accusation. (I don't think Boebert is in quite the same league, but give it time).

idlewords 6y ago
If she's doing something criminal, then charge her. But I think the issue here is that she is associating with extremists, and our political clique considers such behavior beyond the pale. Unfortunately, that norm no longer exists in the other party. The traditional remedy for such extremism was to expose the links to voters, who would be duly horrified and vote her out. But MTG's voters knew exactly who they were electing, and I will wager that she wins again with ease in 2022. She is now a culture hero thanks to the Democratic legislators who voted against her. Overriding the voters' decision based on our own notions of propriety, in the name of saving democracy, is a sure path to ruin. As long as her conduct is lawful, there is no defensible way to get her out of Congress except the hard way.
- tptacek 6y ago
  I think I agree with you about proposals to remove MTG and Boebert from Congress altogether. Ultimately, the choice of the voters in a district is a big deal, and I can clearly see the bad places this goes if every district is subject to a majoritarian check from Congress itself --- which I'm betting we lose in 2 years anyways. But not seating MTG (or maybe Boebert) on committees seems like less of a problem, and it doesn't seem any less legitimate to me when the majority of the House does it to MTG than when the Republicans themselves did it to Steve King; in both cases, it wasn't the will of the voters that elected these people that created the consequences. Also: it took a long time to get Steve King out, and an superheroic amount of effort from JD Scholten, who had to know his chances were slim and kept fighting anyways; I don't know that you can expect Scholtens to keep appearing to fend these monsters off. But just looping back to the subject of the thread: there's a "rule of goats" thing about wishcasting the assassination of a political opponent, and, in collaborating with people who are almost certainly not being ironic in discussing the possibility, MTG has gone way beyond being an ironic goatfucker.
  - idlewords 6y ago
    I think there's a world of difference between kicking someone in your own party off of committees, and doing it to someone in the opposing party. I also think it's defeatist to assume the only way to be rid of extremists in the House is by procedural fiat.
    - tptacek 6y ago
      I guess I agree with the second claim and not the first.
rayiner 6y ago
Is she talking with people who “do mean it?” I can’t find any articles describing who she was talking to. Maybe I’m just uninformed. But that seems like the talk that is pervasive in anonymous chat boards (there’s even one for law students called autoadmit—it’s a cesspool). All that stuff is leaking out into real name services now. But I’m not convinced these people are really plotting to kill anyone.
- tptacek 6y ago
  They aren't all plotting to kill anyone. But enough of them are that Capitol was stormed by a mob that beat a police officer to death with a fire extinguisher and a plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan was foiled. And MTG knows that. She's opted herself into culpability for the actions of these people by vigorously and repeatedly endorsing them --- and specifically them, and specifically their violent actions. I think people do hyperventilate about right-wing conspiracy nutjobs. But lending institutional support to actual insurrectionists isn't just Twitter drama.