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Every time the Democratic Party get some power they immediately pivot to gun control which is the ONE major issue outside abortion that motivates the other side

Every time the Democratic Party get some power they immediately pivot to gun control which is the ONE major issue outside abortion that motivates the other side to vote. It’s like they can’t help shooting themselves in the foot. Last I checked, long firearms (non-handgun, which includes AR-15 scary black guns and shotguns and anything not holdable by one hand) only accounted for less than 500 fatalities in the United States per year. Whatever your political leaning, this is not a particularly high number considering the other public health issues the US faces. Anyone have more up to date data on that? Last source I checked was 2009 FBI data.

ardy42 6y ago
> Every time the Democratic Party get some power they immediately pivot to gun control which is the ONE major issue outside abortion that motivates the other side to vote. It’s like they can’t help shooting themselves in the foot. Yeah, it's baffling. Honestly, if they dropped the maximalist gun control agenda (and letting people know with stunts like AOC and Pelosi going trap shooting or something) and make it easy for reps from anti-abortion districts to be anti-abortion, I think they could literally break the back of the Republican party and get a lot of good things done in the process.
detaro 6y ago
> mediately pivot to gun control I might just have missed it, but I didn't see much of that recently? I don't think a bill by a single rep that didn't even find co-sponsors for it counts as a party pivot.
- sparrish 6y ago
  This is one of three different gun control bills being presented.
NoOneNew 6y ago
One big problem I noticed about gun death charts in the US compared to other countries lies in the data. Look at the chart names. Fbi Gun deaths in the US and gun death crimes in whatever country they're comparing too. A third of US gun deaths are suicides, according to the FBI. With suicides, it's like 10-11 deaths per capita. Without, it's like 6-7 per capita. Countries with heavy gun restrictions, like England have around 5 to 6 deaths per same capita. Gun bans dont solve anywhere near as much as people think.
- emteycz 6y ago
  Indeed. And now look at Czechia and Switzerland, the European countries with unusually large private gun ownership. These countries are actually safer than the other! Responsibly regulated gun ownership helps.
  - Youden 6y ago
    I'd advise against using Swiss statistics to draw too many conclusions. It may serve as evidence that a society can be safe despite the presence of guns but it doesn't serve as evidence that taking away guns from Americans will do anything in particular.
- Youden 6y ago
  How do the suicide rates in other countries compare? Is there an argument to be made that reducing access to guns increases the barrier to suicide and therefore decreases the numbers?
  - NoOneNew 6y ago
    1 min googling, top result: US suicide rate In 2018, there were 48,344 recorded suicides, up from 42,773 in 2014, according to the CDC's National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS). On average, adjusted for age, the annual U.S. suicide rate increased 24% between 1999 and 2014, from 10.5 to 13.0 suicides per 100,000 people, the highest rate recorded in 28 years. England suicide rate The suicide rate of 11.2 deaths per 100,000 population recorded by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) in 2018 is an increase on the 10.1 per 100,000 population recorded in 2017, which was the lowest since the organisation began recording data on suicide in the United Kingdom in 1981. Singapore suicide rate (considered the strictest on guns) There were 397 reported suicides in 2018, compared with 361 the year before. This raised the suicide rate to 8.36 deaths per 100,000 Singapore residents, up from 7.74 in 2017. All age groups, except those aged 60 years and above, recorded an increase in the number of suicides, said the suicide prevention agency. These are overall suicides, not by method. I highly doubt there's any statistical significance in proving that no access to guns results in people not wanting to kill themselves. The argument literally then turns to, "Because guns exist, people want to kill themselves. It has nothing to do with relationship, ptsd, financial or existential issues. Strictly their access to guns." That uptick the US had for suicides, how much you want to bet that's due to neglected veterans after Iraq and Afghanistan? Looking at the bottom chart for US suicides: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States#:~:text=In%202018%2C%20there%20were%2048%2C344,rate%20recorded%20in%2028%20years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States#:.... You have a general increase of suicides throughout the Vietnam war and then for about 3 years after it ended (1975). In the little bit of googling, I can't find solid numbers, but during that 2000s increase timeframe, there was also a report that more vets died by suicide than by actual conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan.
sleepysysadmin 6y ago
>Every time the Democratic Party get some power they immediately pivot to gun control which is the ONE major issue outside abortion that motivates the other side to vote. It’s like they can’t help shooting themselves in the foot. Not unlike many politicians in other countries with only 2 parties. You fight to gain control but did you really win? You earnt the vote of many people who would have voted for you regardless because your opponent was hated that much. Then you start implementing changes but even your own support do not agree with the actions you are taking. So you have not won the election if your own support abandons you. >Last I checked, long firearms (non-handgun, which includes AR-15 scary black guns and shotguns and anything not holdable by one hand) only accounted for less than 500 fatalities in the United States per year. This is accurate. There's a very clear explanation. The firearm deaths per capita is high-ish for the USA. Which is what the democrats want to fix. The unspoken other reality is that it's not homicide but rather suicide. People dont commit suicide with long guns. Flipside, in situations like homicide. Do outright gun bans end firearm homicides? Absolutely. Does it have any appreciable effect on homicides though? Actually the opposite. For some reason the years after gun bans usually increases homicides quite significantly. Banning guns dont stop people from wanting to kill other people. They will go get knives or whatever other weapon. The ultimate goal of gun bans isn't reduction in harm. It's about political and social control. Cant be having any peasant revolts.

ardy42 6y ago

> Every time the Democratic Party get some power they immediately pivot to gun control which is the ONE major issue outside abortion that motivates the other side to vote. It’s like they can’t help shooting themselves in the foot. Yeah, it's baffling. Honestly, if they dropped the maximalist gun control agenda (and letting people know with stunts like AOC and Pelosi going trap shooting or something) and make it easy for reps from anti-abortion districts to be anti-abortion, I think they could literally break the back of the Republican party and get a lot of good things done in the process.

detaro 6y ago

> mediately pivot to gun control I might just have missed it, but I didn't see much of that recently? I don't think a bill by a single rep that didn't even find co-sponsors for it counts as a party pivot.

sparrish 6y ago
This is one of three different gun control bills being presented.

NoOneNew 6y ago

One big problem I noticed about gun death charts in the US compared to other countries lies in the data. Look at the chart names. Fbi Gun deaths in the US and gun death crimes in whatever country they're comparing too. A third of US gun deaths are suicides, according to the FBI. With suicides, it's like 10-11 deaths per capita. Without, it's like 6-7 per capita. Countries with heavy gun restrictions, like England have around 5 to 6 deaths per same capita. Gun bans dont solve anywhere near as much as people think.

emteycz 6y ago
Indeed. And now look at Czechia and Switzerland, the European countries with unusually large private gun ownership. These countries are actually safer than the other! Responsibly regulated gun ownership helps.
- Youden 6y ago
  I'd advise against using Swiss statistics to draw too many conclusions. It may serve as evidence that a society can be safe despite the presence of guns but it doesn't serve as evidence that taking away guns from Americans will do anything in particular.
Youden 6y ago
How do the suicide rates in other countries compare? Is there an argument to be made that reducing access to guns increases the barrier to suicide and therefore decreases the numbers?
- NoOneNew 6y ago
  1 min googling, top result: US suicide rate In 2018, there were 48,344 recorded suicides, up from 42,773 in 2014, according to the CDC's National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS). On average, adjusted for age, the annual U.S. suicide rate increased 24% between 1999 and 2014, from 10.5 to 13.0 suicides per 100,000 people, the highest rate recorded in 28 years. England suicide rate The suicide rate of 11.2 deaths per 100,000 population recorded by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) in 2018 is an increase on the 10.1 per 100,000 population recorded in 2017, which was the lowest since the organisation began recording data on suicide in the United Kingdom in 1981. Singapore suicide rate (considered the strictest on guns) There were 397 reported suicides in 2018, compared with 361 the year before. This raised the suicide rate to 8.36 deaths per 100,000 Singapore residents, up from 7.74 in 2017. All age groups, except those aged 60 years and above, recorded an increase in the number of suicides, said the suicide prevention agency. These are overall suicides, not by method. I highly doubt there's any statistical significance in proving that no access to guns results in people not wanting to kill themselves. The argument literally then turns to, "Because guns exist, people want to kill themselves. It has nothing to do with relationship, ptsd, financial or existential issues. Strictly their access to guns." That uptick the US had for suicides, how much you want to bet that's due to neglected veterans after Iraq and Afghanistan? Looking at the bottom chart for US suicides: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States#:~:text=In%202018%2C%20there%20were%2048%2C344,rate%20recorded%20in%2028%20years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States#:.... You have a general increase of suicides throughout the Vietnam war and then for about 3 years after it ended (1975). In the little bit of googling, I can't find solid numbers, but during that 2000s increase timeframe, there was also a report that more vets died by suicide than by actual conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan.

sleepysysadmin 6y ago

>Every time the Democratic Party get some power they immediately pivot to gun control which is the ONE major issue outside abortion that motivates the other side to vote. It’s like they can’t help shooting themselves in the foot. Not unlike many politicians in other countries with only 2 parties. You fight to gain control but did you really win? You earnt the vote of many people who would have voted for you regardless because your opponent was hated that much. Then you start implementing changes but even your own support do not agree with the actions you are taking. So you have not won the election if your own support abandons you. >Last I checked, long firearms (non-handgun, which includes AR-15 scary black guns and shotguns and anything not holdable by one hand) only accounted for less than 500 fatalities in the United States per year. This is accurate. There's a very clear explanation. The firearm deaths per capita is high-ish for the USA. Which is what the democrats want to fix. The unspoken other reality is that it's not homicide but rather suicide. People dont commit suicide with long guns. Flipside, in situations like homicide. Do outright gun bans end firearm homicides? Absolutely. Does it have any appreciable effect on homicides though? Actually the opposite. For some reason the years after gun bans usually increases homicides quite significantly. Banning guns dont stop people from wanting to kill other people. They will go get knives or whatever other weapon. The ultimate goal of gun bans isn't reduction in harm. It's about political and social control. Cant be having any peasant revolts.