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> Pakistan is not a secular country, unlike England or the USA It's a minor quibble, but England does have an established national Church, so it's not entirely
by Veen 6y ago
> Pakistan is not a secular country, unlike England or the USA
It's a minor quibble, but England does have an established national Church, so it's not entirely secular in the way the US is. 26 CofE Bishops sit in the House of Lords, the Lords Spiritual. The head of state is also the head of the Church.
- imbnwa 6y agoIt is so fascinating how fascinated all these Germanic kingdoms in Western Europe were with emulating the Romans
- danans 6y agoUntil Henry VIII's divorce of Catherine of Aragon, England had the same church as Rome.
- thaumasiotes 6y agoWhy? Rome was vastly richer and more powerful than they were, and the only model of success they ever knew.
- username90 6y agoYet England feel way more secular than USA in practice, given how much Christianity seems to matter in US politics.
- DigiDigiorno 6y agoThe highly religious nature of US settlers is directly connected to our secular freedoms. A lot of early settlers were pretty extreme practicers of their religions and faced persecution in Europe. They left to practice their religion in a place where they wouldn't be burned as a heretic. It's interesting that these opposing extremists were able to get along separately by agreeing to keep the government secular
- shadowgovt 6y agoIt's an interesting piece of American history worth drilling down on. The Virginia Statue of Religious Freedom originated from one of the Southern colonies, which tended towards more English mainstream religion (Jefferson himself was raised in the Church of England, but considered himself a Deist). It served as a sort of "non-aggression pact" between the religions, since the various sects of the Northern colonies had quite a bit of political power by virtue of concentration of their adherents and isolation from traditional European religious power.
- Veen 6y agoYes, and that’s related to the formation of the Church of England too. The religious settlements in the reign of Elizabeth I and others aimed to bring Catholic-leaning and Protestant-leaning believers together in one broad church, but it couldn’t accommodate every sect, so some were excluded from the national church, persecuted, and eventually left. You can still see the division today in high and low Anglican churches.
- mullingitover 6y ago> They left to practice their religion in a place where they wouldn't be burned as a heretic. Not true, at least in the obvious case of the Pilgrims of Plymouth. They were perfectly free to practice their religion when they lived in the Netherlands. They moved away because they wanted to create their own strict theocratic colony. The Netherlands, in their eyes, had too much religious freedom.
- DigiDigiorno 6y agoEven that specific example is a bit of a gray area imo. They were persecuted in England and tried to live in the Netherlands but found life hard to adjust and were also wanting to keep their English identity. So, it is more of persecution by the Church of England that pushed them away. The Netherlands do get a point here for tolerance imo.
- mullingitover 6y ago