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it just raises their anxiety level, even to the point of near-panic. If a child is this adverse to a simple competitive math challenge, (or any competitive cha

it just raises their anxiety level, even to the point of near-panic. If a child is this adverse to a simple competitive math challenge, (or any competitive challenge) the problem is much larger than hating math. Not everyone takes to math, but not everyone takes to reading either. Both skills are essential to a certain level to function properly in our world. You wouldn't suggest that a child who finds reading difficult not be expected to read a novel, so I'm not sure why there is such aversion to multiplication tables. Even if all the child does is mesmerize the patterns, they've still learned a useful construct that will serve them well for the rest of their lives.

marshray 15y ago
You seem to think I'm against working hard on multiplication tables - I'm not. What I'm saying is this particular test is notorious for turning borderline kids into outright failures. I spoke with an educational PhD specialist about it once. There are issues here of personality, temperament, and biology. If you haven't experienced it yourself or seen it up close, it's very hard to appreciate but very easy to think that you do. Think of a skill that takes a significant amount of gentle, enjoyable practice - until it clicks. Like whistling or riding a bicycle. We wouldn't expect kids to learn to whistle or bicycle by having daily contests to see who could whistle the most notes or bike the fastest in 3 minutes, would we? No, the kids who hadn't got the hang of it yet would simply be repeatedly crashing and burning in front of their peers. Whistling and biking are relatively easy to pick up once you have the physical maturity, but the development that enables math kicks in over a range of several years in different people. This is also the time the kids are developing likes and dislikes and academic self-image. At this age, it's better to learn to like math and to enjoy the experience of new concepts sinking in. Pressure drills which tend to exaggerate and reinforce differences can be downright harmful for elementary school kids.
- run4yourlives 15y ago
  Thanks for your awesome comment. Personally, I'm not familiar with these exact games, so perhaps I didn't grasp the full weight/level of competition they encouraged. I do agree with you that learning anything requires a level of comfort prior to applying what you know. My assumption is that such a comfort would be achieved prior to using a competition as practice. Food for thought, thanks.
- JabavuAdams 15y ago
  Yes, this is a concern. You wouldn't expect someone to compete athletically without training first. I like the "gamification" aspect, and would prefer to frame this as self-competition. The same "being beat down at math again" reaction can be turned around into "OMG I'm getting better at math" with some empathy and debugging. It's a wonderful thing to see. I have students who can't do exponents and have trouble answering 3 x 5. We're trying to teach them symbolic and linear algebra. Dur. No wonder they can't keep up. I can debug the exponents deficits (integer exponents) in about 3 hours with a small group. Perhaps another session for radicals and fractional exponents. It's somewhat addictive, to see them realize "I don't have to suck at math".
  - marshray 15y ago
    The same "being beat down at math again" reaction can be turned around into "OMG I'm getting better at math" with some empathy and debugging. It's a wonderful thing to see. It really is. I have students who can't do exponents and have trouble answering 3 x 5. We're trying to teach them symbolic and linear algebra. Dur. No wonder they can't keep up. I think the thing to keep in mind is symbolic math and 3 x 5 are almost completely different tasks. We lump them together under "math" but I've met many teachers who are excessively attached to these false dependencies. I'd love to bring back Euclid himself and sit him down in one of these third grade classrooms and see how he does on the Mad Minute. It's not like he knew how to do long division or anything. :-P I can debug the exponents deficits (integer exponents) in about 3 hours with a small group. Perhaps another session for radicals and fractional exponents. It's somewhat addictive, to see them realize "I don't have to suck at math". Thank you for what you're doing.

marshray 15y ago

You seem to think I'm against working hard on multiplication tables - I'm not. What I'm saying is this particular test is notorious for turning borderline kids into outright failures. I spoke with an educational PhD specialist about it once. There are issues here of personality, temperament, and biology. If you haven't experienced it yourself or seen it up close, it's very hard to appreciate but very easy to think that you do. Think of a skill that takes a significant amount of gentle, enjoyable practice - until it clicks. Like whistling or riding a bicycle. We wouldn't expect kids to learn to whistle or bicycle by having daily contests to see who could whistle the most notes or bike the fastest in 3 minutes, would we? No, the kids who hadn't got the hang of it yet would simply be repeatedly crashing and burning in front of their peers. Whistling and biking are relatively easy to pick up once you have the physical maturity, but the development that enables math kicks in over a range of several years in different people. This is also the time the kids are developing likes and dislikes and academic self-image. At this age, it's better to learn to like math and to enjoy the experience of new concepts sinking in. Pressure drills which tend to exaggerate and reinforce differences can be downright harmful for elementary school kids.

run4yourlives 15y ago
Thanks for your awesome comment. Personally, I'm not familiar with these exact games, so perhaps I didn't grasp the full weight/level of competition they encouraged. I do agree with you that learning anything requires a level of comfort prior to applying what you know. My assumption is that such a comfort would be achieved prior to using a competition as practice. Food for thought, thanks.
JabavuAdams 15y ago
Yes, this is a concern. You wouldn't expect someone to compete athletically without training first. I like the "gamification" aspect, and would prefer to frame this as self-competition. The same "being beat down at math again" reaction can be turned around into "OMG I'm getting better at math" with some empathy and debugging. It's a wonderful thing to see. I have students who can't do exponents and have trouble answering 3 x 5. We're trying to teach them symbolic and linear algebra. Dur. No wonder they can't keep up. I can debug the exponents deficits (integer exponents) in about 3 hours with a small group. Perhaps another session for radicals and fractional exponents. It's somewhat addictive, to see them realize "I don't have to suck at math".
- marshray 15y ago
  The same "being beat down at math again" reaction can be turned around into "OMG I'm getting better at math" with some empathy and debugging. It's a wonderful thing to see. It really is. I have students who can't do exponents and have trouble answering 3 x 5. We're trying to teach them symbolic and linear algebra. Dur. No wonder they can't keep up. I think the thing to keep in mind is symbolic math and 3 x 5 are almost completely different tasks. We lump them together under "math" but I've met many teachers who are excessively attached to these false dependencies. I'd love to bring back Euclid himself and sit him down in one of these third grade classrooms and see how he does on the Mad Minute. It's not like he knew how to do long division or anything. :-P I can debug the exponents deficits (integer exponents) in about 3 hours with a small group. Perhaps another session for radicals and fractional exponents. It's somewhat addictive, to see them realize "I don't have to suck at math". Thank you for what you're doing.