3 ms·

> I'm rather convinced at this point that all of these people chanting "Can we just go back to traditional approaches!" have never built a web app of reasonabl

> I'm rather convinced at this point that all of these people chanting "Can we just go back to traditional approaches!" have never built a web app of reasonable complexity, never used something like React, or have some sort of combination of FOMO and/or comfort in their long-held approach. I've got plenty of React & front-end experience and vastly prefer a thin library on top of the DOM than something like React, also for large applications. React is ok if all goes well, but when you have to debug or profile something, all the complexity behind the scenes occludes what you are looking for. Most of the time, people want JSX so you need a transpiler. Also keeping up with changes in new React releases seems like a lot of lost time. I've been building [1] without a transpiler and just a 600 lines template library (see [2]), and it has been such a breath of fresh air. The fact that there is so little code between you and the browser makes it very easy to see what is going on. Call stacks of max around 15 frames. It sounds like you are comparing React to jquery code without components, and I justed wanted to highlight that DOM APIs have evolved since those days, and that you don't need a library like React to structure your code. React has popularized good ideas in front-end development, like components, but I think the complexity cost of a virtual DOM is often underestimated. 1: https://github.com/vector-im/hydrogen-web/ https://github.com/vector-im/hydrogen-web/ 2: https://github.com/vector-im/hydrogen-web/blob/master/src/platform/web/ui/login/LoginView.js https://github.com/vector-im/hydrogen-web/blob/master/src/pl...

kingdomcome50 6y ago
I see this sentiment often, that React is too complex, and I just don't understand that criticism. Is there some bloat? I'm sure. But the problems that React solves aren't trivial either. The signature of a React application (and each component thereof) is simply `f(state) => HTML`. That isn't hard to understand, and the complexity behind the scenes is the complexity necessary to distill and optimize an application to the above. And to your point about JSX, yes, I do want that. I find it silly to write HTML using some other DSL. I have yet to find one that is anywhere near as transparent or ergonomic. How could there be? I suppose I can agree profiling for the cause of undesired cycles could be easier, but, frankly, I rarely need to do so because I can simply reason about why a function/component is being invoked. The "flow" of a React application is well-defined (and rather simple). To your last point about structuring your code, you are probably right. Things have come quite far since jQuery in many respects, and I am sure that, if I were to try my had at it again, I would find it to be much more sane than 5-6 years ago. I just don't see why anyone would subject themselves to that though... Kudos on your project! It looks great, and I'm sure provides the faculties important to you and your platform. I would be careful though. Given enough time and energy you may find, in the end, you have simply reinvented React!

kingdomcome50 6y ago

I see this sentiment often, that React is too complex, and I just don't understand that criticism. Is there some bloat? I'm sure. But the problems that React solves aren't trivial either. The signature of a React application (and each component thereof) is simply `f(state) => HTML`. That isn't hard to understand, and the complexity behind the scenes is the complexity necessary to distill and optimize an application to the above. And to your point about JSX, yes, I do want that. I find it silly to write HTML using some other DSL. I have yet to find one that is anywhere near as transparent or ergonomic. How could there be? I suppose I can agree profiling for the cause of undesired cycles could be easier, but, frankly, I rarely need to do so because I can simply reason about why a function/component is being invoked. The "flow" of a React application is well-defined (and rather simple). To your last point about structuring your code, you are probably right. Things have come quite far since jQuery in many respects, and I am sure that, if I were to try my had at it again, I would find it to be much more sane than 5-6 years ago. I just don't see why anyone would subject themselves to that though... Kudos on your project! It looks great, and I'm sure provides the faculties important to you and your platform. I would be careful though. Given enough time and energy you may find, in the end, you have simply reinvented React!