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As I look back, if we had not been berated so much, we wouldn’t have seen that these were amazing products and they could have been launched so much better. Te
by aaronbrethorst 6y ago
As I look back, if we had not been berated so much, we wouldn’t have seen that these were amazing products and they could have been launched so much better.
Textbook abusive relationship
- Daho0n 6y agoI find that the more people like Apple products the less they can see how abusive it was.
- aaronbrethorst 6y agoI like Apple products quite a bit. But I can still say that every story I've ever heard about Steve in this vein makes it sound like he was very abusive. But I hear you. It's like people with their favorite sports teams/automobile moguls/organized religions/podcast hosts/political parties/etc.
- lebaux 6y agoI know that I quit 3 times, one kind of officially via email to HR. God only knows how many times I was actually yelled at and fired but it never went anywhere. Essentially I never really wanted to leave so I didn’t. Smells a whole lot like Stockholm syndrome.
- Veen 6y agoWhy do people confidently assert psychological diagnoses based on i) minimal knowledge of the individual and their situation and ii) minimal knowledge of psychology? It seems stupid to me.
- ladyanita22 6y agoBecause sometimes it is this obvious.
- goto11 6y agoStockholm syndrome is not even a real diagnosis. But it is pretty clear form the story that Jobs was abusive towards his employees and the employee tries to justify and rationalize this. Call that what you will.
- breakfastduck 6y agoBecause people are desperate to project their own personal opinion onto other people. Jesus, the man clearly doesn't regret working with Steve. So there's no reason to give these weird pseudo-psychological takes any time.
- breakfastduck 6y agoI assume you also think every Chef working in a majorly successful restaurant under world leading chefs are suffering from the same, yeah?
- aaronbrethorst 6y agoYou paint with a very broad brush here, but I think that there is a pattern of toxic work culture in the kitchens of many top restaurants. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/dining/chef-restaurant-culture.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/dining/chef-restaurant-cu...
- breakfastduck 6y agoIt may appear toxic externally, sure. It's clear many benefit from the military-style discipline and focus on perfection in these places. So while it's easy to look back at something 'toxic' it completely skirts around the fact that their own personal skill likely benefited hugely from the experience.
- aaronbrethorst 6y agoHow does beating a dishwasher for taking a 45 minute break benefit his personal skill?
- breakfastduck 6y agoIt obviously doesn't. It's not that black and white.
- goto11 6y agoSo how did Jobs himself become brilliant? Who berated and humiliated him until he acquired his talents?
- com 6y agoEverybody I knew who was a chef working for somebody else has quit and do other very different things now. Long working days, underpayment and stress were big complaints, but the thing that struck me was the correlation between complaints of excessive bullying, up to and including violence, with silver service restaurant kitchens. There’s something wrong in that industry that wouldn’t be remotely tolerated where I work.
- goto11 6y agoThe real question is if people with a capacity (perhaps even desire?) to suffer beration and verbal abuse are better at their job compared to the people who just quit? If they are indeed better, then Jobs may have had a sound strategy. But if this form of masochism is not positively correlated with competence, he may have ended up with a worse team overall. A similar discussion happened concerning toxic language towards Linux kernel contributors. Some have suggested that a "code of conduct" (i.e. speaking civilized) would lead to worse code quality, implying that the best developers are also the ones who tolerate or even desire verbal abuse. Personally I doubt this psychological condition is correlated with competence as a developer. After all, how did Jobs get so good at his stuff when nobody abused him? The poor guy in the interview suggest it was the threats and berations which made him do his best effort. So why does this logic not apply to Jobs himself?
- birdsbirdsbirds 6y agoMaybe Steve Jobs did the same berated to himself?
- breakfastduck 6y agoYeah, because you know more about it than the man himself, right? He clearly doesn't regret his decision to work with Steve.