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> And again -- you can still get involuntarily committed to an institution after you're arrested. The only difference is that now you have two problems instead

by edbob 6y ago

> And again -- you can still get involuntarily committed to an institution after you're arrested. The only difference is that now you have two problems instead of one, both a mental health record and a criminal record. There are tens of thousands of serious sex offenders who, after serving their prison terms, are civilly committed to a prison-like treatment facility until the state decides they are safe. Only the most dangerous 2-4% of sex offenders are committed, and in some states it's rare that anyone is fully released. (Minnesota didn't fully release a single person in a two-decade period[0] In Texas, "only one person has been released from the program on a provisional basis since it was created 16 years ago."[1]). It's very expensive because the states do have to provide professional treatment, but apparently the states feel that the cost is worth it. In many cases being convicted of murder would be better than being civilly committed, since one would have a much better chance of eventually seeing freedom. [0] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/inside-minnesotas-sex-offender-facility-where-no-one-has-ever-been-released https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/inside-minnesotas-sex-of... [1] https://texasvoices.org/judge-plans-to-release-texas-sex-offender-from-civil-commitment/ https://texasvoices.org/judge-plans-to-release-texas-sex-off...

danShumway 6y ago
How would this program make that problem worse? You're talking about a situation that is almost always going to be accompanied by jail time. Even under this program, the top 2-4% of sex offenders are going to go through the justice system and see jail time. Look at the stuff you're citing (emphasis mine): > This type of law grants Minnesota courts the ability to deem someone an ongoing threat > here are tens of thousands of serious sex offenders who, after serving their prison terms, are civilly committed If anything, this seems to lend credence to the idea that having more police officers is not a deterrent for involuntary commitment. Literally all of these people were committed after being arrested and going through the justice system. ---- Add to that the fact that you're talking about a relatively tiny proportion of a very specific crime. Doesn't mean that it's not a problem, but as a point of comparison, there are currently ~200,000 people in the US serving lifetime sentences in prison. So I still don't see how I'm expected to treat those numbers like they're the same. Of course treatment facilities can be problematic, but I'm not seeing numbers that make me think they're a worse problem than our current incarceration system. And I especially don't see how the current initiative is going to affect the numbers you're talking about. Is Denver planning to stop prosecuting sex offenders? Why does the first responder being a mental health professional or a police officer matter in that instance? I mean, on both sides here it's wild to be talking about the top 2-4% of sex offenders or prison life sentences in regards to a program that is bragging in press releases about how they handled a low-level trespassing case. You're looking at a different category of crime than this program is designed to address.
- edbob 6y ago
  I have no idea why you're interpreting my post as an adversary. My post seems to support your position. I was giving an example of the situation you stipulated, where having both a mental health record and a criminal record is much worse than merely having a mental health record. It's the combination of the two that gets one locked away for life. If there were a mental health program that could address these problems before they become a criminal justice issue (granted, a huge if), then everyone would be far better off. Not everything is a debate to win, and I'm not your opponent.

by edbob 6y ago

danShumway 6y ago

How would this program make that problem worse? You're talking about a situation that is almost always going to be accompanied by jail time. Even under this program, the top 2-4% of sex offenders are going to go through the justice system and see jail time. Look at the stuff you're citing (emphasis mine): > This type of law grants Minnesota courts the ability to deem someone an ongoing threat > here are tens of thousands of serious sex offenders who, after serving their prison terms, are civilly committed If anything, this seems to lend credence to the idea that having more police officers is not a deterrent for involuntary commitment. Literally all of these people were committed after being arrested and going through the justice system. ---- Add to that the fact that you're talking about a relatively tiny proportion of a very specific crime. Doesn't mean that it's not a problem, but as a point of comparison, there are currently ~200,000 people in the US serving lifetime sentences in prison. So I still don't see how I'm expected to treat those numbers like they're the same. Of course treatment facilities can be problematic, but I'm not seeing numbers that make me think they're a worse problem than our current incarceration system. And I especially don't see how the current initiative is going to affect the numbers you're talking about. Is Denver planning to stop prosecuting sex offenders? Why does the first responder being a mental health professional or a police officer matter in that instance? I mean, on both sides here it's wild to be talking about the top 2-4% of sex offenders or prison life sentences in regards to a program that is bragging in press releases about how they handled a low-level trespassing case. You're looking at a different category of crime than this program is designed to address.

edbob 6y ago
I have no idea why you're interpreting my post as an adversary. My post seems to support your position. I was giving an example of the situation you stipulated, where having both a mental health record and a criminal record is much worse than merely having a mental health record. It's the combination of the two that gets one locked away for life. If there were a mental health program that could address these problems before they become a criminal justice issue (granted, a huge if), then everyone would be far better off. Not everything is a debate to win, and I'm not your opponent.