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For some definition of lifestyle and culture relative to the notion of "golden age". It is true that we are supremely comfortable. It is true that we have an a

For some definition of lifestyle and culture relative to the notion of "golden age". It is true that we are supremely comfortable. It is true that we have an abundance of information. It is true that more people have more access to more wealth than ever if by "wealth" you mean how many things that were luxuries in previous generations have become commodities we can consume now, even if it's on credit and rent instead of ownership and entitlements. But not everyone would value such things, nor the incentives and affordances new technologies provide. There are many poor aspects of our civilization such as greater neuroticism and strong pressures against our physical health flooding our environment since birth. Are these better problems to have than subsistence hunting? Maybe, but regardless they're still widespread and glaring and demonstrate that our utopia is based on tradeoffs. Things that make human beings truly happy, like opportunities for compassionate service, large tight-knit families, natural environments to be physically active in, living space sufficient for privacy if necessary, moments of quiet for centering and concentration, easy access to healthy foods of moderate caloric density without having to fight temptation, consistently good sleep - all of these have become more difficult to attain relative to the attitudes and commitments required to maintain our current manner of civilization. It is also an absurdum to use cavemen as a point of comparison. It would make the Dark Ages as much of a golden age as the Renaissance.

WalterBright 6y ago
> But not everyone would value such things https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Princess_and_the_Pea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Princess_and_the_Pea > It is also an absurdum to use cavemen as a point of comparison Not at all. It's technology that got us out of caves. Besides, we live a life unimaginable even 100 years ago. I mean that literally, having read scifi of the time.
- bordercases 6y ago
  With the caveman example, you were making it too easy on yourself, because it is not hard to make improvements from that situation and call it a golden age. Comparing how the top billion live now versus the bottom billion is a fairer comparison, and yeah so is looking at the last 100-200 years. Creature comforts are nice and make life luxurious, but there are people in the bottom billion that are happier than people in the top billion without as much. You are right to point out that there are people who are going to be miserable despite modern advantages; this was in fact my point. The things that actually make people happy have to do with good health, social integration, exposure to nature, love and compassion, and having a sense of mastery over one's life outcomes. The issue is that our civilization, through the technologies it's chosen to accentuate, makes it harder than it has to be achieve all of the things that actually give happiness. And using more technology to solve problems caused by technology, rather than moderating the enthusiasm of adding and layering technology because technology is just good, exacerbates these issues further. It's a problem because it's unacknowledged irony. For instance, industrial agriculture keeps more people calorically satiated, but has lead to an epidemic of diabetes; hyperspecialization required to maintain complex technologies, means people have smaller families later, and move far apart from one another. Nature is a victim of technology, since industrialization and urbanization require a lot of space, and produce waste which disrupts ecosystems and eventually our own bodies. (Mastery is more difficult and subjective, but it's affected partially by feeling like you own the outcomes of your own labour, and addictions to comfort end up displacing the pursuit of mastery, and there are ways in which e.g. market volatility and income inequality (things modernity has exacerbated) can put people in a position where they don't have control of their life at all.) Some technological solutions to these technological problems work. Before COVID we could fly to meet our families, negating geographical distance. Some just add complexity for no good reason. Fitness apps and calorie counting are there to make up for the difficulties produced by mass industrial agriculture that is not in anyone's control, because addictions are profitable.
prohobo 6y ago
Comfort is soul killing. We're heading for comfortable serfdom, where people are locked in a Brave New World style prison without healthy community, opportunity, or growth. Comfort is something which should accompany a well lived life, at the end of the day, when it's time to rest. Comfort as the de facto circumstance of your life makes people unable to act in the interest of their own wellbeing - they are sabotaged by it. As an allegory: There are millions of people who are addicted to various drugs, which they desperately wish they could stop using because their lives are being wasted/destroyed. It's the same thing with comfort, there's a level of addiction to it which is extremely difficult to overcome. Obviously, comfort (addiction) alone isn't the problem, but when you add to it the constant abuses of our society, people fall apart and can't get off the couch. When people are isolated, denigrated, and treated like cattle they get weak. Give a traumatized person a comfy prison cell and they'll never leave it. Talk of Utopia is dangerous though, whenever people start talking like this some atrocity seems to be just around the corner.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  > We're heading for comfortable serfdom, where people are locked in a Brave New World style prison without healthy community, opportunity, or growth. There's never been more opportunity for starting a business and rapidly moving up. Just look at the never-ending stream of new billion dollar companies.
- sershe 6y ago
  This is a position that can be taken only from a place of comfort. Have you ever thought why the heaven of most religions is basically doing nothing, forever? Because that is the dream life most people imagined when faced with their actual pre-industrial existence. Comfort comes before self-actualization, not the other way around. Comfort is simply, unquestionably, in all cases, better than some mythical "growth" and "community" without comfort.
  - prohobo 6y ago
    What you're saying is complete nonsense. For one, you don't seem to have any concept of our evolutionary biology. Humans have evolved to be goal-oriented, and we receive happiness for participating in activities that are beneficial to our long-term survival. Second, you don't seem to understand the predatory nature of our economic system and social media. Modern "comforts" (consumerism) and tech are hijacking those endorphin pathways to make us "happy" while we rot. At the back of our minds we know this, and we try to stop it, but few are meaningfully able to and most spiral into depression and anxiety. That sounds like something good to you? Naive visions of heaven where you spend eternity doing nothing are actually closer to hell than anything else - even a sloth would go insane after a few months. I can understand our ancestors trying to come up with an end-game that they knew would be unattainable, but you think they actually properly thought it through? I don't think you've properly thought it through. Navel-gazing is a game for prisoners, not people living their lives.

WalterBright 6y ago

> But not everyone would value such things https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Princess_and_the_Pea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Princess_and_the_Pea > It is also an absurdum to use cavemen as a point of comparison Not at all. It's technology that got us out of caves. Besides, we live a life unimaginable even 100 years ago. I mean that literally, having read scifi of the time.

bordercases 6y ago
With the caveman example, you were making it too easy on yourself, because it is not hard to make improvements from that situation and call it a golden age. Comparing how the top billion live now versus the bottom billion is a fairer comparison, and yeah so is looking at the last 100-200 years. Creature comforts are nice and make life luxurious, but there are people in the bottom billion that are happier than people in the top billion without as much. You are right to point out that there are people who are going to be miserable despite modern advantages; this was in fact my point. The things that actually make people happy have to do with good health, social integration, exposure to nature, love and compassion, and having a sense of mastery over one's life outcomes. The issue is that our civilization, through the technologies it's chosen to accentuate, makes it harder than it has to be achieve all of the things that actually give happiness. And using more technology to solve problems caused by technology, rather than moderating the enthusiasm of adding and layering technology because technology is just good, exacerbates these issues further. It's a problem because it's unacknowledged irony. For instance, industrial agriculture keeps more people calorically satiated, but has lead to an epidemic of diabetes; hyperspecialization required to maintain complex technologies, means people have smaller families later, and move far apart from one another. Nature is a victim of technology, since industrialization and urbanization require a lot of space, and produce waste which disrupts ecosystems and eventually our own bodies. (Mastery is more difficult and subjective, but it's affected partially by feeling like you own the outcomes of your own labour, and addictions to comfort end up displacing the pursuit of mastery, and there are ways in which e.g. market volatility and income inequality (things modernity has exacerbated) can put people in a position where they don't have control of their life at all.) Some technological solutions to these technological problems work. Before COVID we could fly to meet our families, negating geographical distance. Some just add complexity for no good reason. Fitness apps and calorie counting are there to make up for the difficulties produced by mass industrial agriculture that is not in anyone's control, because addictions are profitable.

prohobo 6y ago

Comfort is soul killing. We're heading for comfortable serfdom, where people are locked in a Brave New World style prison without healthy community, opportunity, or growth. Comfort is something which should accompany a well lived life, at the end of the day, when it's time to rest. Comfort as the de facto circumstance of your life makes people unable to act in the interest of their own wellbeing - they are sabotaged by it. As an allegory: There are millions of people who are addicted to various drugs, which they desperately wish they could stop using because their lives are being wasted/destroyed. It's the same thing with comfort, there's a level of addiction to it which is extremely difficult to overcome. Obviously, comfort (addiction) alone isn't the problem, but when you add to it the constant abuses of our society, people fall apart and can't get off the couch. When people are isolated, denigrated, and treated like cattle they get weak. Give a traumatized person a comfy prison cell and they'll never leave it. Talk of Utopia is dangerous though, whenever people start talking like this some atrocity seems to be just around the corner.

WalterBright 6y ago
> We're heading for comfortable serfdom, where people are locked in a Brave New World style prison without healthy community, opportunity, or growth. There's never been more opportunity for starting a business and rapidly moving up. Just look at the never-ending stream of new billion dollar companies.
sershe 6y ago
This is a position that can be taken only from a place of comfort. Have you ever thought why the heaven of most religions is basically doing nothing, forever? Because that is the dream life most people imagined when faced with their actual pre-industrial existence. Comfort comes before self-actualization, not the other way around. Comfort is simply, unquestionably, in all cases, better than some mythical "growth" and "community" without comfort.
- prohobo 6y ago
  What you're saying is complete nonsense. For one, you don't seem to have any concept of our evolutionary biology. Humans have evolved to be goal-oriented, and we receive happiness for participating in activities that are beneficial to our long-term survival. Second, you don't seem to understand the predatory nature of our economic system and social media. Modern "comforts" (consumerism) and tech are hijacking those endorphin pathways to make us "happy" while we rot. At the back of our minds we know this, and we try to stop it, but few are meaningfully able to and most spiral into depression and anxiety. That sounds like something good to you? Naive visions of heaven where you spend eternity doing nothing are actually closer to hell than anything else - even a sloth would go insane after a few months. I can understand our ancestors trying to come up with an end-game that they knew would be unattainable, but you think they actually properly thought it through? I don't think you've properly thought it through. Navel-gazing is a game for prisoners, not people living their lives.