6 ms·

This title makes it sound like a bad thing, but this is good. Edit: I think the title was changed between me posting this. Please ignore it.

Triv888 6y ago
That new title confused me at first... maybe I'm the only one. The actual title of the article is more clear to me. Actual title: "In the first six months of health care professionals replacing police officers, no one they encountered was arrested" HN title: "Zero arrests in 6 months of health care professionals replacing police officers"
tsycho 6y ago
Funny, I read the title and immediately thought it was a good thing. Only after I read your comment did I consider the alternative :)
dv_dt 6y ago
Why not the actual title (though that title is a little awkward too) “In the first six months of health care professionals replacing police officers, no one they encountered was arrested”
- ryanwhitney 6y ago
  Character count, sadly. I’m not a fan of editing either.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Whether no arrests is a good thing depends on the crimes. Only the most ideologically blinded would defend having a social worker team like this respond to car break-ins and the other broad daylight petty theft that has plagued California since they passed that ballot measure awhile back (and a couple other specific cities with similiar legislation). If using this program as an alternative to police response for drunk and disorderly conduct, teenagers doing teenager things, homeless person trespassing and other "no immediate victim" type crime (which is what it sounds like from TFA) then it's a good thing.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  If the breakins are people who need food and shelter, maybe they can help. Or if they can convince people to switch from crime to legitimate income. In other words I'd be okay with lesser penalties for someone smashing my window if in exchange there was a very high likelihood of getting caught, and of that event leading to reformed lives.
  - cvdub 6y ago
    I'd love to see stats on how many of the people involved in these incidents end up leading reformed lives. The mental health team diffuses the situation and no one gets arrested. That's great on paper, but what happens tomorrow? If someone is smashing car windows to pay for their drug addiction, what's stopping them from doing it again tomorrow?
    - myownpetard 6y ago
      > what's stopping them from doing it again tomorrow? Giving medical help to a drug addict is more likely to reduce the likelihood that they commit another crime than giving them a criminal record.
      - nitrogen 6y ago
        Anecdotally, I can confirm this by seeing someone who made one very real but economically insignificant mistake have their career ruined for years over a misdemeanor charge. They needed financial and emotional help. Instead they got a plea bargain steamroller, no chance to talk to counsel, etc.
- fineIllregister 6y ago
  You're assuming that every time the police are called, there is a crime. You can scroll up in this post to see examples of people calling police when they are concerned for someone's welfare, and no crime has been committed. It happens regulary for want of other options.
sdrg822 6y ago
Agreed, the "but" in the bolded text[1] further confuses, but the article highlights some great progress. >> STAR, has responded to 748 incidents." >> about 3 percent of calls for DPD service, or over 2,500 incidents, were worthy of the alternative approach [1] "Chief Pazen is thrilled with the success of STAR, but the time and money it saves will go toward fighting crime, he said."
baryphonic 6y ago
The title is the worst part of the story. It seems tautological that a person will not be arrested when the police hand off that person to people who don't carry out arrests. It'd be a bit like saying that in the first six months of marijuana legalization, there were zero arrests for marijuana possession. The more interesting (and heartening) aspect is that the police and the white van brigade appear to be working together and helping each other do what they do best, with benefits to the community.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Exactly. If the police decide they're making an arrest these guys aren't getting the call. These guys get called when the police feel like helping but can't justify spending their time on it.
- addicted 6y ago
  The white van has the right and ability to call the police to make an arrest. In the past, these 750 incidents, which did not require police intervention would have likely led to a police squad wasting time on these 750 incidents as opposed to spending time on other real crime issues. The problem is that such white vans don’t exist in other police forces.
- astura 6y ago
  If the mental health personnel can't resolve the issue on their own they call for police backup to make arrests. The fact there were zero arrests means the mental health personnel were able to handle every case they encountered. I agree it's worded strangely.

Triv888 6y ago

That new title confused me at first... maybe I'm the only one. The actual title of the article is more clear to me. Actual title: "In the first six months of health care professionals replacing police officers, no one they encountered was arrested" HN title: "Zero arrests in 6 months of health care professionals replacing police officers"

tsycho 6y ago

Funny, I read the title and immediately thought it was a good thing. Only after I read your comment did I consider the alternative :)

dv_dt 6y ago

Why not the actual title (though that title is a little awkward too) “In the first six months of health care professionals replacing police officers, no one they encountered was arrested”

ryanwhitney 6y ago
Character count, sadly. I’m not a fan of editing either.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

Whether no arrests is a good thing depends on the crimes. Only the most ideologically blinded would defend having a social worker team like this respond to car break-ins and the other broad daylight petty theft that has plagued California since they passed that ballot measure awhile back (and a couple other specific cities with similiar legislation). If using this program as an alternative to police response for drunk and disorderly conduct, teenagers doing teenager things, homeless person trespassing and other "no immediate victim" type crime (which is what it sounds like from TFA) then it's a good thing.

nitrogen 6y ago
If the breakins are people who need food and shelter, maybe they can help. Or if they can convince people to switch from crime to legitimate income. In other words I'd be okay with lesser penalties for someone smashing my window if in exchange there was a very high likelihood of getting caught, and of that event leading to reformed lives.
- cvdub 6y ago
  I'd love to see stats on how many of the people involved in these incidents end up leading reformed lives. The mental health team diffuses the situation and no one gets arrested. That's great on paper, but what happens tomorrow? If someone is smashing car windows to pay for their drug addiction, what's stopping them from doing it again tomorrow?
  - myownpetard 6y ago
    > what's stopping them from doing it again tomorrow? Giving medical help to a drug addict is more likely to reduce the likelihood that they commit another crime than giving them a criminal record.
    - nitrogen 6y ago
      Anecdotally, I can confirm this by seeing someone who made one very real but economically insignificant mistake have their career ruined for years over a misdemeanor charge. They needed financial and emotional help. Instead they got a plea bargain steamroller, no chance to talk to counsel, etc.
fineIllregister 6y ago
You're assuming that every time the police are called, there is a crime. You can scroll up in this post to see examples of people calling police when they are concerned for someone's welfare, and no crime has been committed. It happens regulary for want of other options.

sdrg822 6y ago

Agreed, the "but" in the bolded text[1] further confuses, but the article highlights some great progress. >> STAR, has responded to 748 incidents." >> about 3 percent of calls for DPD service, or over 2,500 incidents, were worthy of the alternative approach [1] "Chief Pazen is thrilled with the success of STAR, but the time and money it saves will go toward fighting crime, he said."

baryphonic 6y ago

The title is the worst part of the story. It seems tautological that a person will not be arrested when the police hand off that person to people who don't carry out arrests. It'd be a bit like saying that in the first six months of marijuana legalization, there were zero arrests for marijuana possession. The more interesting (and heartening) aspect is that the police and the white van brigade appear to be working together and helping each other do what they do best, with benefits to the community.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Exactly. If the police decide they're making an arrest these guys aren't getting the call. These guys get called when the police feel like helping but can't justify spending their time on it.
addicted 6y ago
The white van has the right and ability to call the police to make an arrest. In the past, these 750 incidents, which did not require police intervention would have likely led to a police squad wasting time on these 750 incidents as opposed to spending time on other real crime issues. The problem is that such white vans don’t exist in other police forces.
astura 6y ago
If the mental health personnel can't resolve the issue on their own they call for police backup to make arrests. The fact there were zero arrests means the mental health personnel were able to handle every case they encountered. I agree it's worded strangely.