5 ms·

Tesla is competing on European market with 10% tariffs. Wait for cars made in Giga Berlin that will be exempted from tariffs.

rad_gruchalski 6y ago
Tariffs have nothing to do with quality.
- Isinlor 6y ago
  "and are even outselling Tesla in major EV markets like Europe." They are because among other things Tesla has 10% tariffs.
  - rad_gruchalski 6y ago
    I’m looking forward to European clients storming Tesla for German manufactured Teslas.
africanboy 6y ago
Tesla is not the only EV car on the market anymore. The top selling EV in Europe in 2020 was the Renault Zoe, Volkswagen is catching up fast (they sold 56k ID 3 despite only going on sale in the second half of last year VS 85k Model 3 over 12 months), Tesla model 3 was second, but numbers are dropping. If we are talking about quality, I think the new BMW and Mercedes will take the lead in the segment Tesla is being marketed right now. Tesla numbers are good thanks to Norway buying a lot of them.
- Isinlor 6y ago
  Starting price of Renault ZOE is 30 490 euro vs. Tesla Model 3 is 48 000 euro. The fact that Model 3 is second only to a car almost half the price is kind of crazy. And Tesla will probably drop this price by some 5000 euro as soon as they will start production at Giga Berlin. Also, this decade will not be about EV vs. ICE. It will be about self-driving. My guess is that Tesla will have robotaxis driving all around the world somewhere after 2025, but before 2030. Traditional car companies have no expertise in software as they themselves admit.
  - africanboy 6y ago
    Zoe starts at € 38.900 in Italy the 77KWh is € 48.900 You are probably not accounting for VAT AFAIK self driving as in unattended driving is not big in Europe, given that most of the driving happens in crowded cities and country roads. Self driving is welcome on highways, but almost any modern car have some kind of auto pilot system that works well enough. > Traditional car companies have no expertise in software as they themselves admit. That's simply not true anymore. All manufacturers are working on it, Honda will release a level 3 at the end of March this year, Tesla is a level 2 (if I am not wrong) p.s. I am from Italy
    - Isinlor 6y ago
      Dutch website is claiming that Renault Zoe R110 Life costs 33 590 [0]. Seems like I've missed 3500 subsidy from Dutch government. Nobody is able to do true self driving like a taxi in city today. But it will be possible in this decade (I have 95% confidence) and it will be happening in Europe as well. Whoever achieves true, reliable, widely deployed self-driving first will crash competition. Car ownership will effectively disappear in the decade after that i.e. 2030 and later. [0] https://www.renault.nl/elektrische-autos/zoe.html https://www.renault.nl/elektrische-autos/zoe.html
      - africanboy 6y ago
        > Car ownership will effectively disappear in the next decade i.e. 2030 and later as a former car owner that has been car-free for 7 years (using only car sharing and short term rentals) I sincerely hope you're right. Note that the subsidies can be up to 10k here in Italy, but that's true for Tesla as well.
      - Amezarak 6y ago
        Maybe in cities. Nobody in rural areas or the suburbs is going to not buy a car because of self-driving rentals.
        Isinlor 6y ago

rad_gruchalski 6y ago

Tariffs have nothing to do with quality.

Isinlor 6y ago
"and are even outselling Tesla in major EV markets like Europe." They are because among other things Tesla has 10% tariffs.
- rad_gruchalski 6y ago
  I’m looking forward to European clients storming Tesla for German manufactured Teslas.

africanboy 6y ago

Tesla is not the only EV car on the market anymore. The top selling EV in Europe in 2020 was the Renault Zoe, Volkswagen is catching up fast (they sold 56k ID 3 despite only going on sale in the second half of last year VS 85k Model 3 over 12 months), Tesla model 3 was second, but numbers are dropping. If we are talking about quality, I think the new BMW and Mercedes will take the lead in the segment Tesla is being marketed right now. Tesla numbers are good thanks to Norway buying a lot of them.

Isinlor 6y ago
Starting price of Renault ZOE is 30 490 euro vs. Tesla Model 3 is 48 000 euro. The fact that Model 3 is second only to a car almost half the price is kind of crazy. And Tesla will probably drop this price by some 5000 euro as soon as they will start production at Giga Berlin. Also, this decade will not be about EV vs. ICE. It will be about self-driving. My guess is that Tesla will have robotaxis driving all around the world somewhere after 2025, but before 2030. Traditional car companies have no expertise in software as they themselves admit.
- africanboy 6y ago
  Zoe starts at € 38.900 in Italy the 77KWh is € 48.900 You are probably not accounting for VAT AFAIK self driving as in unattended driving is not big in Europe, given that most of the driving happens in crowded cities and country roads. Self driving is welcome on highways, but almost any modern car have some kind of auto pilot system that works well enough. > Traditional car companies have no expertise in software as they themselves admit. That's simply not true anymore. All manufacturers are working on it, Honda will release a level 3 at the end of March this year, Tesla is a level 2 (if I am not wrong) p.s. I am from Italy
  - Isinlor 6y ago
    Dutch website is claiming that Renault Zoe R110 Life costs 33 590 [0]. Seems like I've missed 3500 subsidy from Dutch government. Nobody is able to do true self driving like a taxi in city today. But it will be possible in this decade (I have 95% confidence) and it will be happening in Europe as well. Whoever achieves true, reliable, widely deployed self-driving first will crash competition. Car ownership will effectively disappear in the decade after that i.e. 2030 and later. [0] https://www.renault.nl/elektrische-autos/zoe.html https://www.renault.nl/elektrische-autos/zoe.html
    - africanboy 6y ago
      > Car ownership will effectively disappear in the next decade i.e. 2030 and later as a former car owner that has been car-free for 7 years (using only car sharing and short term rentals) I sincerely hope you're right. Note that the subsidies can be up to 10k here in Italy, but that's true for Tesla as well.
    - Amezarak 6y ago
      Maybe in cities. Nobody in rural areas or the suburbs is going to not buy a car because of self-driving rentals.
      - Isinlor 6y ago