5 ms·

For profit entities use parties to bond teams and accomplish a goal. Non profit entities ought to have that freedom as well.

vorpalhex 6y ago
They are welcome to, just declare it upfront.
- ben_w 6y ago
  Do shareholding and dividend statements generally say such things upfront?
  - medicineman 6y ago
    Do share holders donate or do they expect returns?
- wittyreference 6y ago
  I have a hard time imagining something more destructive to the ability to run an organization than putting forward all managerial initiatives for public consent, just in case some portion of the public disagrees with that choice. Talk about design by committee.
  - caseysoftware 6y ago
    > Talk about design by committee. aka Wikipedia.
  - medicineman 6y ago
    >I have a hard time imagining something more destructive to the ability to run an organization How about eroding public trust? I can think of a lot more. Perhaps your imagination is subject to a hidden bias.
- jrochkind1 6y ago
  What does "declaring it upfront" look like, what are you asking for? Like, a copy of their budget before donating? I think you can probably get that?
  - iso8859-1 6y ago
    I can't find any line-item in the Foundation Audit Reports named "parties" though. Is it under "other operating expenses"? How can I know how much of those $9M was spent on parties?
    - jrochkind1 6y ago
      Do you want a line-item for how much they spend on office coffee-per-person too? Surely parties can't be the only thing you are concerned about. There does seem to be a line "Special event expense, net". I would guess parties go in there? It was reported as around $300K, or 0.2% of expenses, in the most recent fiscal year. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/f/f7/Wikimedia_Foundation_FY2019-2020_Audit_Report.pdf https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/f/f7/Wikim..." I cannot tell you how much they spend on office coffee though. I bet they're wasting it on unecological kuerigs and gourmet brands. It's probably a reason not to donate.
      - iso8859-1 6y ago
        It really depends how much the coffee costs. Like with Putin's palace, people wouldn't complain about the toilet brushes if they weren't gold-coated. Is the coffee bought from Mahers cousin? Sure, I'd like to know that. Parties do not have to be funded by the company. During my lifetime, I never went to a company-funded party. But I have been doing fine, funding my own parties. What do you need? A stereo and a disco ball. Anyway, how can you spend $9M on stereos and disco balls? It warrants scrutiny.
        jrochkind1 6y ago
        And how can we know how much the coffee costs without a line-item? It is clear you don't trust how wikimedia is going to use your money, so you shouldn't donate to them. Nobody is forcing you, certainly. I don't think any line-items or "declaring it up front" is going to satisfy you though. Most people don't seem to agree with you. I don't think it's really a reporting or "declaring it up front" issue. Where is your "$9 million" figure coming from though?
- _jal 6y ago
  Yeah, not going to happen, and for good reason. This is really no different than people who whine about what people receiving public assistance buy. It is an attempt to leverage money in to control, and it is gross. If you don't like what Wikimedia does, don't give them money. If you do, great, but donations don't buy line-item veto privileges.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  I think you should assume that every charitable organization you are donating to might throw the occasional party for their administrative employees and will certainly throw parties to attract donations.
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    Having worked for both a small and a mid-size charity (~50, ~500 employees), and known people at others, in my experience an annual "staff party" or similar is usually fairly low-key. People are very aware that the money comes from donations. Why have the party at all? Because spending €20 or whatever per employee/volunteer on an annual party has benefits beyond increasing everyone's salary by that amount: job satisfaction, employee/volunteer retention, knowledge sharing etc. Fundraising events are parties for the guests, but work for the charity staff. (Attend the party, introduce Rich Person X to Foreign Princess Y who promotes our work and went to the same university, mention the proposed project in Country Z if she doesn't, etc.)
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      None of this is in contrast with what I'm saying, no? I would expect an international organization (like Wikimedia) to throw small "staff" parties all over the world, and maybe the CEO would come to some of those to give members at that location recognition.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

vorpalhex 6y ago

They are welcome to, just declare it upfront.

ben_w 6y ago
Do shareholding and dividend statements generally say such things upfront?
- medicineman 6y ago
  Do share holders donate or do they expect returns?
wittyreference 6y ago
I have a hard time imagining something more destructive to the ability to run an organization than putting forward all managerial initiatives for public consent, just in case some portion of the public disagrees with that choice. Talk about design by committee.
- caseysoftware 6y ago
  > Talk about design by committee. aka Wikipedia.
- medicineman 6y ago
  >I have a hard time imagining something more destructive to the ability to run an organization How about eroding public trust? I can think of a lot more. Perhaps your imagination is subject to a hidden bias.
jrochkind1 6y ago
What does "declaring it upfront" look like, what are you asking for? Like, a copy of their budget before donating? I think you can probably get that?
- iso8859-1 6y ago
  I can't find any line-item in the Foundation Audit Reports named "parties" though. Is it under "other operating expenses"? How can I know how much of those $9M was spent on parties?
  - jrochkind1 6y ago
    Do you want a line-item for how much they spend on office coffee-per-person too? Surely parties can't be the only thing you are concerned about. There does seem to be a line "Special event expense, net". I would guess parties go in there? It was reported as around $300K, or 0.2% of expenses, in the most recent fiscal year. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/f/f7/Wikimedia_Foundation_FY2019-2020_Audit_Report.pdf https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/f/f7/Wikim..." I cannot tell you how much they spend on office coffee though. I bet they're wasting it on unecological kuerigs and gourmet brands. It's probably a reason not to donate.
    - iso8859-1 6y ago
      It really depends how much the coffee costs. Like with Putin's palace, people wouldn't complain about the toilet brushes if they weren't gold-coated. Is the coffee bought from Mahers cousin? Sure, I'd like to know that. Parties do not have to be funded by the company. During my lifetime, I never went to a company-funded party. But I have been doing fine, funding my own parties. What do you need? A stereo and a disco ball. Anyway, how can you spend $9M on stereos and disco balls? It warrants scrutiny.
      - jrochkind1 6y ago
        And how can we know how much the coffee costs without a line-item? It is clear you don't trust how wikimedia is going to use your money, so you shouldn't donate to them. Nobody is forcing you, certainly. I don't think any line-items or "declaring it up front" is going to satisfy you though. Most people don't seem to agree with you. I don't think it's really a reporting or "declaring it up front" issue. Where is your "$9 million" figure coming from though?
_jal 6y ago
Yeah, not going to happen, and for good reason. This is really no different than people who whine about what people receiving public assistance buy. It is an attempt to leverage money in to control, and it is gross. If you don't like what Wikimedia does, don't give them money. If you do, great, but donations don't buy line-item veto privileges.
whimsicalism 6y ago
I think you should assume that every charitable organization you are donating to might throw the occasional party for their administrative employees and will certainly throw parties to attract donations.
- Symbiote 6y ago
  Having worked for both a small and a mid-size charity (~50, ~500 employees), and known people at others, in my experience an annual "staff party" or similar is usually fairly low-key. People are very aware that the money comes from donations. Why have the party at all? Because spending €20 or whatever per employee/volunteer on an annual party has benefits beyond increasing everyone's salary by that amount: job satisfaction, employee/volunteer retention, knowledge sharing etc. Fundraising events are parties for the guests, but work for the charity staff. (Attend the party, introduce Rich Person X to Foreign Princess Y who promotes our work and went to the same university, mention the proposed project in Country Z if she doesn't, etc.)
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    None of this is in contrast with what I'm saying, no? I would expect an international organization (like Wikimedia) to throw small "staff" parties all over the world, and maybe the CEO would come to some of those to give members at that location recognition.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]