4 ms·
Mouse in Manhattan is a wonderful short. The storytelling, the pacing, and the orchestral score are magical. But there is the small issue of Jerry falling int
by khazhoux 6y ago
Mouse in Manhattan is a wonderful short. The storytelling, the pacing, and the orchestral score are magical.
But there is the small issue of Jerry falling into a vial of shoe polish and then popping his head out -- in full blackface. Yup, that's not allowed today. I hope they just correct that (but without messing up the music) rather than outright ban it.
- reaperducer 6y agoWhat is "correct" today will not be "correct" tomorrow. You don't reconcile history by pretending it didn't exist. 50 years from now, some young generation will decide that animal-sourced leather is a hate crime, and every movie you've ever seen will be banned to "correct" the social error of seeing shoes that aren't plastic.
- khazhoux 6y agoGrowing up, it was acceptable to shoot a Rodian before giving him a chance to shoot you. But blackface is clearly prohibited today. So there's two choices for art like this: edit it, or it doesn't get shown publicly again. I'm only arguing that I'd prefer the former to the latter.
- vorpalhex 6y agoThere's a third choice - just show it unedited. Put a disclaimer if needed. You can still buy a copy of mein kampf and read the loonery Hitler wrote. You don't learn from history by denying it's existence.
- anotherman554 6y agoI'd be fine with making the mouse cartoon available for people who want to study/ experience cartoon history but not showing it unedited on a streaming service where most people who watch it are kids.
- vorpalhex 6y agoBut Game of Thrones which features torture and rape is fine to show unedited? Either what these censored cartoons showed is somehow worse than realistic depictions of rape and torture.. or we're being inconsistent.
- dragonwriter 6y ago> But Game of Thrones which features torture and rape is fine to show unedited? Or one of the shows has appeal to children as central to its market role, and the other was designed, marketed to, and always rated for adult audiences.
- devmunchies 6y agohe accidentally falls in black dye though. Of course his face would be black. why is that bad?
- khazhoux 6y agoWell it's clearly blackface, 100%. The lips, the wide smile. It's the typical cartoonish depiction of Black people at the time. That was the gag --> "Jerry falls into shoe dye and now he's a negro." Incidentally, another favorite of mine from the 40s --The Spirit comics by Will Eisner-- also feature a character with the cartoon black face: huge lips, etc. Unfortunately, that limits the exposure the comics will get with modern audiences.
- psyc 6y agoYes, that's what happens causally. But the gag is that the result looks like blackface. At least I'm 90% certain that was the intention of the writer / animator.
- jabroni_salad 6y agoI'm going to assume that in this conversation you have not seen the original content and are responding to the text here in a vacuum. Here is the specific symbolism being used so that you may understand the context. https://i.imgur.com/X39LVNF.png https://i.imgur.com/X39LVNF.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Minstrel_PosterBillyVanWare_edit.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Minstrel...
- eplanit 6y ago"Correcting" seems just as dystopian as banning outright. Put a warning label on it and people can choose to not view it.
- sib 6y agoSo we're all going to go to the library and start removing (maybe burning??) all the books that are no longer proper?
- khazhoux 6y agoWe're not talking about libraries, but private streaming services like HBO Max and Disney+. They've made their choice.
- sib 6y agoI'm pretty sure that we're talking more broadly about content that's "not allowed today" (according to some decision made by some people) and there's no reason why that decision wouldn't carry weight beyond a few private streaming services. Libraries distribute not just books, but also movies on disc, e-books, and even streaming content.