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Whether this is true depends on what you do. The last update to TeX (widely used in math and computer science for typesetting) was 12 January 2014. A lot of p

by btilly 6y ago

Whether this is true depends on what you do. The last update to TeX (widely used in math and computer science for typesetting) was 12 January 2014. A lot of payment processing systems are still running on code written in the 1960s and 1970s. Frequently untouched since Y2K. I have a friend who went to work in the mid 2000s for a company she had worked for in the early 1970s. Out of curiosity she looked up her old programs. They were still running, unchanged. She asked why and was told, "They never broke." One of the reasons for the survival of FORTRAN is that there are trusted software packages that people rely on which were written decades ago and still run. There is an active emulator community for people who want to run games that are decades old, unchanged. No, your old Netscape browser won't work in the modern web. Nor are early mobile apps going to run. But you'd be amazed at how many places you can find old software still happily running today.

Jtsummers 6y ago
Good modular design is helpful here. Properly segregating responsibilities means that portions of your code base can become "finished", while other portions remain in near constant flux. For an emulator, for example, if you separate the rendering from the hardware emulation portion, you can leave the hardware emulation portion untouched for years at a time while changing just the rendering code to port to new platforms. The best "old" (30+ or 40+ years) code I worked on did this. The worst, which forced total rewrites, mingled everything together "for performance" but prevented the software from being easily ported to a new OS (Windows 3.1 hasn't been supported for a long time) or extended to support new capabilities.
lmm 6y ago
> The last update to TeX (widely used in math and computer science for typesetting) was 12 January 2014. But if you want to actually use it you'll install a much more recent distribution - probably texlive from 2020.
- btilly 6y ago
  Yes. You'll install a bunch of recent stuff around it. But the heart of it, TeX, is still the same old version.
  - atomicson 6y ago
    Old version? You have to understand that some applications need innovation based on new ideas. TeX is only popular in the academic and publishing world, not like a web browser. Can we write a complex equation in TeX as easy as we write in popular word applications like MS Word?
    - btilly 6y ago
      Can we write a complex equation in TeX as easy as we write in popular word applications like MS Word? Thank you for the most ludicrous comment that I've seen today. The popularity of TeX in academia is exactly because writing complex equations in popular word applications is painfully hard, and the typesetting is poor. By contrast writing them in TeX is easy and the typesetting defaults to excellent. Talk to anyone who has to actually write many such equations. They will verify that it is not a question of "as easy". It is massively easier and better in TeX. Which is why academics working in math, physics and computer science overwhelmingly choose TeX.
      - jimmyvalmer 6y ago
        > It is massively easier and better in TeX. Obviously depends on where along the learning curve, and preformed command line literacy, which on a venue like HN is always assumed to be native. As a hypothetical, consider a Rip Van Winkle situation in which a mathematician wakes from a coma he's been in since the 1970s. Now force him to typeset one of his monographs. He'll do it in MS Word.
        btilly 6y ago
        Obviously depends on where along the learning curve, and preformed command line literacy, which on a venue like HN is always assumed to be native. Actually not. As a hypothetical, consider a Rip Van Winkle situation in which a mathematician wakes from a coma he's been in since the 1970s. Now force him to typeset one of his monographs. He'll do it in MS Word. I have personal experience pertaining to this. Before I was a programmer, I was a graduate student in mathematics. I wound up in the early 90s having never used Word or TeX and in a position where I needed to type up a paper. I began with Word, and before long I complained about how hard it was. A fellow grad student said I should learn how to do it in TeX. It was literally faster, *on the very first paper that I tried to type*, to learn TeX and then type my paper in TeX than it was to try to do it in Word. The visual result was also massively better with TeX. Typesetting math formulas in Word is simply that bad. I've tried to typeset some simple mathematics in Word since. The experience has not materially improved when it comes to typing real mathematics. Based on this personal experience, I am quite confident that in the Rip Van Winkle situation that you describe, the mathematician will wind up doing it in TeX. And do it the same way that I did. Try Word because that seems easier. Ask a fellow mathematician when that proves to be a terrible experience. Be pointed at TeX and given a few tips. Discover that it is easier.

by btilly 6y ago

Jtsummers 6y ago

Good modular design is helpful here. Properly segregating responsibilities means that portions of your code base can become "finished", while other portions remain in near constant flux. For an emulator, for example, if you separate the rendering from the hardware emulation portion, you can leave the hardware emulation portion untouched for years at a time while changing just the rendering code to port to new platforms. The best "old" (30+ or 40+ years) code I worked on did this. The worst, which forced total rewrites, mingled everything together "for performance" but prevented the software from being easily ported to a new OS (Windows 3.1 hasn't been supported for a long time) or extended to support new capabilities.

lmm 6y ago

> The last update to TeX (widely used in math and computer science for typesetting) was 12 January 2014. But if you want to actually use it you'll install a much more recent distribution - probably texlive from 2020.

btilly 6y ago
Yes. You'll install a bunch of recent stuff around it. But the heart of it, TeX, is still the same old version.
- atomicson 6y ago
  Old version? You have to understand that some applications need innovation based on new ideas. TeX is only popular in the academic and publishing world, not like a web browser. Can we write a complex equation in TeX as easy as we write in popular word applications like MS Word?
  - btilly 6y ago
    Can we write a complex equation in TeX as easy as we write in popular word applications like MS Word? Thank you for the most ludicrous comment that I've seen today. The popularity of TeX in academia is exactly because writing complex equations in popular word applications is painfully hard, and the typesetting is poor. By contrast writing them in TeX is easy and the typesetting defaults to excellent. Talk to anyone who has to actually write many such equations. They will verify that it is not a question of "as easy". It is massively easier and better in TeX. Which is why academics working in math, physics and computer science overwhelmingly choose TeX.
    - jimmyvalmer 6y ago
      > It is massively easier and better in TeX. Obviously depends on where along the learning curve, and preformed command line literacy, which on a venue like HN is always assumed to be native. As a hypothetical, consider a Rip Van Winkle situation in which a mathematician wakes from a coma he's been in since the 1970s. Now force him to typeset one of his monographs. He'll do it in MS Word.
      - btilly 6y ago
        Obviously depends on where along the learning curve, and preformed command line literacy, which on a venue like HN is always assumed to be native. Actually not. As a hypothetical, consider a Rip Van Winkle situation in which a mathematician wakes from a coma he's been in since the 1970s. Now force him to typeset one of his monographs. He'll do it in MS Word. I have personal experience pertaining to this. Before I was a programmer, I was a graduate student in mathematics. I wound up in the early 90s having never used Word or TeX and in a position where I needed to type up a paper. I began with Word, and before long I complained about how hard it was. A fellow grad student said I should learn how to do it in TeX. It was literally faster, *on the very first paper that I tried to type*, to learn TeX and then type my paper in TeX than it was to try to do it in Word. The visual result was also massively better with TeX. Typesetting math formulas in Word is simply that bad. I've tried to typeset some simple mathematics in Word since. The experience has not materially improved when it comes to typing real mathematics. Based on this personal experience, I am quite confident that in the Rip Van Winkle situation that you describe, the mathematician will wind up doing it in TeX. And do it the same way that I did. Try Word because that seems easier. Ask a fellow mathematician when that proves to be a terrible experience. Be pointed at TeX and given a few tips. Discover that it is easier.