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I feel Elon's style of thinking is really at odds with matured mass manufacturing space. Iterative software development is hard to translate to mass physical pr

by aynyc 6y ago

I feel Elon's style of thinking is really at odds with matured mass manufacturing space. Iterative software development is hard to translate to mass physical products with consumers. Elon uses iterative process with SpaceX with great success, but it's not translating well to Tesla.

Schiendelman 6y ago
Tesla is in the top ten most valuable companies in the world. I'm not sure why you think that process is "not translating well".
- aynyc 6y ago
  This post is about quality of the vehicles. Tesla isn't there yet, comparing to say Toyota/Honda/Lexus.
  - carlmr 6y ago
    Also the stock price at this point is entirely decoupled from profitability.
- omginternets 6y ago
  Perhaps the market currently overvalues Tesla? This isn't a very convincing argument.
  - ALittleLight 6y ago
    Isn't it a more convincing argument than someone just commenting "it's not translating well". I see Teslas on the street every day. I've driven a Tesla. The next car I buy is going to be a Tesla. I don't know if the market evaluation is right or wrong but Musk is clearly making cars that many people like. Hard for me to see how that is a bad translation.
    - totalZero 6y ago
      None of this has to do with whether the iterative approach to vehicle manufacturing is going well. (Enjoy your future Tesla.)
    - omginternets 6y ago
      Claim: "Tesla's approach to manufacturing results in high-quality cars." You are replacing "high-quality cars" with "a successful business", and then responding in the affirmative. I'm assuming this is because you misread the subject of the debate.
      - ALittleLight 6y ago
        I interpret "high-quality cars" as "cars that people want to buy" whereas you seem to be interpreting it as a claim about door panels or general fit and finish. If people would rather own car X compared to car Y in what sense is Y of higher quality than X even if minor details on Y are flawless and X has some problems?
        omginternets 6y ago
        > I interpret "high-quality cars" as "cars that people want to buy" Oh please, now you’re just being obtuse. The discussion is about hardware failures due to poor manufacturing.
    - aynyc 6y ago
      I was commenting on iterative approach of mass production of quality cars isn't translating well. I don't think anyone can say Tesla has better build quality than Toyota/Honda/Lexus. And EV is also considerably simpler than ICE vehicle in terms of moving parts. I don't think Tesla is bad, in fact, I think Tesla is the future. That doesn't mean I want to be the consumer with paint problem or leaking body while Tesla ramps up.
- mrtksn 6y ago
  That's market value calculated by multiplication of the shares available and share price. Gamestop was 10X more valuable 3 days ago than today. It doesn't mean anything unless you trade shares.
nickik 6y ago
Its amazing for me that people say that Elon thinking doesn't work when his company has increased automotive volume around 30-50% for almost 10 years now. And the iterative design works perfectly. Compare the Model 3 ramp in Fremont to the Model 3 ramp in Shanghai. Compare that to the ramp of Model Y and now to the Model Y in Shanghai. They managed the Model Y ramp with much better margin, much less issues. Their financials are improving year over year while growth continued. Saying there were issues with the first real mass production car, and then concluding that iteration doesn't work, seems like a nonsensical argument. If you look at their second and third generation manufacturing lines you see massive improvement and many more improvements are coming. Tesla has 23% of the global market and leading margin in the automotive space. Just a few years ago making money with electric vehicles was supposed to be 'impossible'. They have made amazing technology innovations, they are the most vertically integrated manufacturer in the world, they manufacture lots of things that other OEMs don't. They have for years worked on turning into a battery company, reinventing the whole process of how batteries are produced, including active materials production. They designed their own battery cells being the first to bring to market a number of amazing innovations. They will likely be one of the biggest battery makers in the world within a few years. So, this argument simply doesn't hold up.

by aynyc 6y ago

Schiendelman 6y ago

Tesla is in the top ten most valuable companies in the world. I'm not sure why you think that process is "not translating well".

aynyc 6y ago
This post is about quality of the vehicles. Tesla isn't there yet, comparing to say Toyota/Honda/Lexus.
- carlmr 6y ago
  Also the stock price at this point is entirely decoupled from profitability.
omginternets 6y ago
Perhaps the market currently overvalues Tesla? This isn't a very convincing argument.
- ALittleLight 6y ago
  Isn't it a more convincing argument than someone just commenting "it's not translating well". I see Teslas on the street every day. I've driven a Tesla. The next car I buy is going to be a Tesla. I don't know if the market evaluation is right or wrong but Musk is clearly making cars that many people like. Hard for me to see how that is a bad translation.
  - totalZero 6y ago
    None of this has to do with whether the iterative approach to vehicle manufacturing is going well. (Enjoy your future Tesla.)
  - omginternets 6y ago
    Claim: "Tesla's approach to manufacturing results in high-quality cars." You are replacing "high-quality cars" with "a successful business", and then responding in the affirmative. I'm assuming this is because you misread the subject of the debate.
    - ALittleLight 6y ago
      I interpret "high-quality cars" as "cars that people want to buy" whereas you seem to be interpreting it as a claim about door panels or general fit and finish. If people would rather own car X compared to car Y in what sense is Y of higher quality than X even if minor details on Y are flawless and X has some problems?
      - omginternets 6y ago
        > I interpret "high-quality cars" as "cars that people want to buy" Oh please, now you’re just being obtuse. The discussion is about hardware failures due to poor manufacturing.
  - aynyc 6y ago
    I was commenting on iterative approach of mass production of quality cars isn't translating well. I don't think anyone can say Tesla has better build quality than Toyota/Honda/Lexus. And EV is also considerably simpler than ICE vehicle in terms of moving parts. I don't think Tesla is bad, in fact, I think Tesla is the future. That doesn't mean I want to be the consumer with paint problem or leaking body while Tesla ramps up.
mrtksn 6y ago
That's market value calculated by multiplication of the shares available and share price. Gamestop was 10X more valuable 3 days ago than today. It doesn't mean anything unless you trade shares.

nickik 6y ago

Its amazing for me that people say that Elon thinking doesn't work when his company has increased automotive volume around 30-50% for almost 10 years now. And the iterative design works perfectly. Compare the Model 3 ramp in Fremont to the Model 3 ramp in Shanghai. Compare that to the ramp of Model Y and now to the Model Y in Shanghai. They managed the Model Y ramp with much better margin, much less issues. Their financials are improving year over year while growth continued. Saying there were issues with the first real mass production car, and then concluding that iteration doesn't work, seems like a nonsensical argument. If you look at their second and third generation manufacturing lines you see massive improvement and many more improvements are coming. Tesla has 23% of the global market and leading margin in the automotive space. Just a few years ago making money with electric vehicles was supposed to be 'impossible'. They have made amazing technology innovations, they are the most vertically integrated manufacturer in the world, they manufacture lots of things that other OEMs don't. They have for years worked on turning into a battery company, reinventing the whole process of how batteries are produced, including active materials production. They designed their own battery cells being the first to bring to market a number of amazing innovations. They will likely be one of the biggest battery makers in the world within a few years. So, this argument simply doesn't hold up.