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But they built their moat and got lazy behind it. It should be even easier for the legacy manufacturers to innovate because they figured out the hard stuff in s

by rblatz 6y ago

But they built their moat and got lazy behind it. It should be even easier for the legacy manufacturers to innovate because they figured out the hard stuff in scaling already.

edmundsauto 6y ago
Innovators dilemma, it’s hard to be innovative as well as optimized.
snowwrestler 6y ago
This is the sort of condescending stuff Musk likes to say. What, specifically, is the moat that they are behind? Auto manufacturing is one of the leanest and most competitive industries in the world. If they “got lazy” how come many manufacturers are still better than Tesla at basic fit and finish and hardware reliability? Do we suppose that Tesla is even lazier? (I don’t think that Tesla is lazy at all; I’m pointing out the flaw in using “laziness” as a metric.) A car is a collection of many things. Musk properly understands the impact of Tesla’s electric drivetrain. He underestimated the sustained difficulty of manufacturing the rest of the physical car at scale, just like you are. It’s tempting to look around the world at things as they are, and think that they must be easy since they’re already happening. People have been building cars for 100 years! How hard can it be? The truth is, a lot of what we take for granted in life is delivered through continuous effort against sustained difficulties. Tesla is certainly not the only carmaker who struggles with automation and quality. Musk does seem like the only carmaker CEO who is regularly surprised that those things are hard.
- Delphiza 6y ago
  One part of the moat has to be the dealership laws, where the incumbent manufacturers created a false barrier to entry. There is nothing lean or optimal about legislating that competitors have an arbitrary number of brick and mortar locations. There are probably others in such an established and complex market.
- rblatz 6y ago
  The moat is a few things, but most relevant to this conversation is manufacturing consistent quality vehicles at scale. Tesla has spent a ton of time trying to solve that, but people look past it because Tesla builds cars people want that aren’t being built by the legacy automotive industry. Weird, people want an electric car that doesn’t look like a dork-mobile who could have guessed. These companies are being dragged kicking and screaming into the future, and the best retort is inconsistent panel gaps.
- buzzerbetrayed 6y ago
  The "laziness" clearly is not referring to manufacture quality. Obviously they are great at that. It's referring to the fact that a brand new ICE vehicle from 2021 looks exactly like a brand new ICE vehicle from 1990, with the addition of a backup camera, volume control on the steering wheel, and Carplay/Android Auto (which the car people didn't even invent). Obviously I'm being slightly facetious, but surely nobody can be impressed with the innovation of car companies over the past 30 years.
  - aidenn0 6y ago
    You forgot the innovation of a $1700 GPS that is less usable than a $200 garmin, much less google maps.

by rblatz 6y ago

But they built their moat and got lazy behind it. It should be even easier for the legacy manufacturers to innovate because they figured out the hard stuff in scaling already.

edmundsauto 6y ago

Innovators dilemma, it’s hard to be innovative as well as optimized.

snowwrestler 6y ago

This is the sort of condescending stuff Musk likes to say. What, specifically, is the moat that they are behind? Auto manufacturing is one of the leanest and most competitive industries in the world. If they “got lazy” how come many manufacturers are still better than Tesla at basic fit and finish and hardware reliability? Do we suppose that Tesla is even lazier? (I don’t think that Tesla is lazy at all; I’m pointing out the flaw in using “laziness” as a metric.) A car is a collection of many things. Musk properly understands the impact of Tesla’s electric drivetrain. He underestimated the sustained difficulty of manufacturing the rest of the physical car at scale, just like you are. It’s tempting to look around the world at things as they are, and think that they must be easy since they’re already happening. People have been building cars for 100 years! How hard can it be? The truth is, a lot of what we take for granted in life is delivered through continuous effort against sustained difficulties. Tesla is certainly not the only carmaker who struggles with automation and quality. Musk does seem like the only carmaker CEO who is regularly surprised that those things are hard.

Delphiza 6y ago
One part of the moat has to be the dealership laws, where the incumbent manufacturers created a false barrier to entry. There is nothing lean or optimal about legislating that competitors have an arbitrary number of brick and mortar locations. There are probably others in such an established and complex market.
rblatz 6y ago
The moat is a few things, but most relevant to this conversation is manufacturing consistent quality vehicles at scale. Tesla has spent a ton of time trying to solve that, but people look past it because Tesla builds cars people want that aren’t being built by the legacy automotive industry. Weird, people want an electric car that doesn’t look like a dork-mobile who could have guessed. These companies are being dragged kicking and screaming into the future, and the best retort is inconsistent panel gaps.
buzzerbetrayed 6y ago
The "laziness" clearly is not referring to manufacture quality. Obviously they are great at that. It's referring to the fact that a brand new ICE vehicle from 2021 looks exactly like a brand new ICE vehicle from 1990, with the addition of a backup camera, volume control on the steering wheel, and Carplay/Android Auto (which the car people didn't even invent). Obviously I'm being slightly facetious, but surely nobody can be impressed with the innovation of car companies over the past 30 years.
- aidenn0 6y ago
  You forgot the innovation of a $1700 GPS that is less usable than a $200 garmin, much less google maps.