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> last week, the education ministry issued a notice with a title that left no doubt about its ultimate goal. The linked notice is titled 关于政协十三届全国委员会第三次会议第4404

by yorwba 6y ago

> last week, the education ministry issued a notice with a title that left no doubt about its ultimate goal. The linked notice is titled 关于政协十三届全国委员会第三次会议第4404号（教育类410号）提案答复的函教师提案〔2020〕475号 http://www.moe.gov.cn/jyb_xxgk/xxgk_jyta/jyta_jiaoshisi/202101/t20210128_511584.html http://www.moe.gov.cn/jyb_xxgk/xxgk_jyta/jyta_jiaoshisi/2021... About the Political Consultative Conference's 13th National Committee's third session, answer to the 4404th proposal (410th on education). Teaching proposal no. 475 (2020) Yes, no doubts about its ultimate goal indeed. The answer begins: 您提出的《关于防止男性青少年女性化的提案》收悉，现将涉及教育部业务部分答复如下： Having received and read your "Proposal on the prevention of the feminization of male youth", the answers to the parts concerning the Ministry of Education are as follows: (Then there's a bunch of blabla about improving school sports and whatnot, without any references to gender.) So someone (who?) was concerned about feminization and asked the Ministry of Education to do something about that and they responded. The BBC seems to have mistaken the title mentioned in the response for a statement of the Ministry of Education's official policy. Maybe I should submit a "Proposal to replace Google Translate by fluent Chinese speakers" to the BBC so they can publish a headline "BBC to improve its reporting on China" but I'm not holding my breath.

EastToWest 6y ago
That someone is perhaps a member of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference. I think a close equivalence is an MP in the UK or a congressman / congresswoman / senate in the US. They make proposals on various aspects of life in China. Those proposals aren't official policies. BBC should really have done a better job here. It is also funny to see the top thread a few minutes ago quickly developed into something like military might and "China must be stopped".
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  The BBC is very quick on jumping to anything that can portray China in a negative light at the moment. Now, there are many things that do, but a more prudent and balanced approach with more research would serve the BBC well.
- dr-detroit 6y ago
  Fa Loon Gong pays big bucks if you're willing to sabre rattle for them.
- nomdep 6y ago
  Well, China *must* be stopped, but that has little to do with this piece of lazy reporting.
  - badjeans 6y ago
    China must be stopped? What the fuck does that mean dude?
    - ramadan_steve 6y ago
      Pretty sure that means he loves his Chinese men feminized and wants to keep it that way.
    - adolph 6y ago
      Well, there are some things that need to be stopped like the endless wars on the other side of the world, the extrajudicial drone bombing of their own citizens, the lawless surveillance, militarized seat of government, ramming civilian cargo vessels with battleships, the list of things to stop goes in and on.
      - ardy42 6y ago
        > Well, there are some things that need to be stopped like the endless wars on the other side of the world, the extrajudicial drone bombing of their own citizens, the lawless surveillance, militarized seat of government, ramming civilian cargo vessels with battleships, the list of things to stop goes in and on. Of course an Adolph would try to distract focus from a oppressive unashamedly authoritarian regime towards smaller inward-focused issues.
        adolph 6y ago
        My apologies if I caused offense. In terms of focus I advocate for the power of "and" although I disagree with your characterization of the problems raised as "smaller inward-focused." The wars and droning are not small nor inward-focused. The ramming was referred to in gallows humor as I don't think the Navy is so incompetent that they would think ramming cargo vessels would be effective, just incompetent enough to be accident-prone. The g-parent comment asserts that "China must be stopped" and I started thinking about what aspect(s) of China do they want to stop. Certainly they don't want to end the country and its inhabitants. Maybe they want to stop some behaviors that cause harm in the world? What behaviors would those be? The comment uses the past tense "stopped" instead of "stop" so the implication is that some not-China entity performs the stopping. So what behavior to stop and what entity to do the stopping? Are the actions necessary to stop the behavior proportionate and are they likely effective? To predict this, I look to the track record of previous attempts to "stop" nations and it isn't pretty. My comment came from thinking about what has happened in the US over the course of this century as it has embarked on ever newer crusades to stop this or that.
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  > They make proposals on various aspects of life in China. Those proposals aren't official policies. > BBC should really have done a better job here. The BBC has been flogging SJW agendas for a while now. Even though they're a state organ they need clicks just like anyone else -- and this gets traffic. Mix in some good ole China xenophobia and voila, one of the most active posts on HN. The formula works.
dumb1224 6y ago
Anyone who follows main stream entertainment in China and social media would understand these events as a commonly occurring cultural phenomenon (roughly the equivalent of 'masculinity/identity crisis' lately). Having lived in Europe for more than a decade I however, did find the english title very alarming and worrying, even while reading the same chinese text have no such feeling at all.... language works in different context I suppose...
- A12-B 6y ago
  Two things to note here, first that this isn't really different to any other part of the world. There's always some concern about feminisation of men by (usually) older people who had a rough childhood in the war or something and now project their ideals onto others. The other thing to note, although its not particularly interesting, is that there's going to be a media bias against china from the west in general.
  - david38 6y ago
    Unrelated to the article, but let’s not forget that leeching of estrogen into the ecosystem. This is a real thing and very measurable by ecologists. The US Army also tests such things as sperm count and has seen a rapid decline. So the real solution is less pollution :)
    - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
      Hmm. Sudden off-topic thought: I regularly hear about the decline in violent crime, and hear it attributed to the end of leaded gasoline. Could it be due to falling sperm count instead (or due to the cause of the falling count)?
  - dumb1224 6y ago
    There are nuances and some culture differences in young people from asian and US background e.g. The feminine males are a big part in the mass media such as pop culture (Jpop or Kpop) and anime. Never have the muscular characters dominated any genre (just check any main guy in Japanese/Korean productions). The frail ones are a stereotypical archetype. But I guess you're right about the older generation projecting ideals onto youths nowadays...

by yorwba 6y ago

EastToWest 6y ago

That someone is perhaps a member of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference. I think a close equivalence is an MP in the UK or a congressman / congresswoman / senate in the US. They make proposals on various aspects of life in China. Those proposals aren't official policies. BBC should really have done a better job here. It is also funny to see the top thread a few minutes ago quickly developed into something like military might and "China must be stopped".

mytailorisrich 6y ago
The BBC is very quick on jumping to anything that can portray China in a negative light at the moment. Now, there are many things that do, but a more prudent and balanced approach with more research would serve the BBC well.
dr-detroit 6y ago
Fa Loon Gong pays big bucks if you're willing to sabre rattle for them.
nomdep 6y ago
Well, China *must* be stopped, but that has little to do with this piece of lazy reporting.
- badjeans 6y ago
  China must be stopped? What the fuck does that mean dude?
  - ramadan_steve 6y ago
    Pretty sure that means he loves his Chinese men feminized and wants to keep it that way.
  - adolph 6y ago
    Well, there are some things that need to be stopped like the endless wars on the other side of the world, the extrajudicial drone bombing of their own citizens, the lawless surveillance, militarized seat of government, ramming civilian cargo vessels with battleships, the list of things to stop goes in and on.
    - ardy42 6y ago
      > Well, there are some things that need to be stopped like the endless wars on the other side of the world, the extrajudicial drone bombing of their own citizens, the lawless surveillance, militarized seat of government, ramming civilian cargo vessels with battleships, the list of things to stop goes in and on. Of course an Adolph would try to distract focus from a oppressive unashamedly authoritarian regime towards smaller inward-focused issues.
      - adolph 6y ago
        My apologies if I caused offense. In terms of focus I advocate for the power of "and" although I disagree with your characterization of the problems raised as "smaller inward-focused." The wars and droning are not small nor inward-focused. The ramming was referred to in gallows humor as I don't think the Navy is so incompetent that they would think ramming cargo vessels would be effective, just incompetent enough to be accident-prone. The g-parent comment asserts that "China must be stopped" and I started thinking about what aspect(s) of China do they want to stop. Certainly they don't want to end the country and its inhabitants. Maybe they want to stop some behaviors that cause harm in the world? What behaviors would those be? The comment uses the past tense "stopped" instead of "stop" so the implication is that some not-China entity performs the stopping. So what behavior to stop and what entity to do the stopping? Are the actions necessary to stop the behavior proportionate and are they likely effective? To predict this, I look to the track record of previous attempts to "stop" nations and it isn't pretty. My comment came from thinking about what has happened in the US over the course of this century as it has embarked on ever newer crusades to stop this or that.
blaser-waffle 6y ago
> They make proposals on various aspects of life in China. Those proposals aren't official policies. > BBC should really have done a better job here. The BBC has been flogging SJW agendas for a while now. Even though they're a state organ they need clicks just like anyone else -- and this gets traffic. Mix in some good ole China xenophobia and voila, one of the most active posts on HN. The formula works.

dumb1224 6y ago

Anyone who follows main stream entertainment in China and social media would understand these events as a commonly occurring cultural phenomenon (roughly the equivalent of 'masculinity/identity crisis' lately). Having lived in Europe for more than a decade I however, did find the english title very alarming and worrying, even while reading the same chinese text have no such feeling at all.... language works in different context I suppose...

A12-B 6y ago
Two things to note here, first that this isn't really different to any other part of the world. There's always some concern about feminisation of men by (usually) older people who had a rough childhood in the war or something and now project their ideals onto others. The other thing to note, although its not particularly interesting, is that there's going to be a media bias against china from the west in general.
- david38 6y ago
  Unrelated to the article, but let’s not forget that leeching of estrogen into the ecosystem. This is a real thing and very measurable by ecologists. The US Army also tests such things as sperm count and has seen a rapid decline. So the real solution is less pollution :)
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    Hmm. Sudden off-topic thought: I regularly hear about the decline in violent crime, and hear it attributed to the end of leaded gasoline. Could it be due to falling sperm count instead (or due to the cause of the falling count)?
- dumb1224 6y ago
  There are nuances and some culture differences in young people from asian and US background e.g. The feminine males are a big part in the mass media such as pop culture (Jpop or Kpop) and anime. Never have the muscular characters dominated any genre (just check any main guy in Japanese/Korean productions). The frail ones are a stereotypical archetype. But I guess you're right about the older generation projecting ideals onto youths nowadays...