3 ms·

The people who steal the difference between a living wage and a tip-subsidized wage? Subsidized by us, who pay twice?

vladvasiliu 6y ago
> The people who steal the difference between a living wage and a tip-subsidized wage? The people who could "steal the difference" are usually the owners, right? Not sure why GP put the owners and kitchen staff in the same bucket. From my experience as a client in bars (without actual kitchens) in Paris, France, where tipping "isn't expected but kinda is" [0], most of the time tips are split between wait staff. So I kind of get the issue that if some waiter is going above and beyond and is nice / helpful / quick to serve / etc, whereas a colleague will do the bare minimum, when someone tips, this is diluted. As a client, I'm tipping X for the service, but this particular waiter will only get a fraction of that, the same as his low-effort colleague. I'm not really OK with that. Most places I usually go are rather small and the waiters seem comparable, so I guess it's not usually an issue I have in practice. However, there are other, usually larger places where quality of service varies much more, and I'm usually much less inclined to tip in those places. I've also heard from bar staff having worked in such places that there indeed is more tension between staff, along the lines of "so and so just waits around / doesn't do anything". Wouldn't be surprised that the complainer wouldn't be all too happy to split their tips in such a case. --- [0] Technically, in France, prices are "all-inclusive", that means service is already included in the price, so you don't have to tip. However, at least in bars around Paris, I've noticed that it's somewhat expected to get a tip, especially when clients are considered "difficult" (though I'm unable to exactly quantify that).
- viraptor 6y ago
  > Not sure why GP put the owners and kitchen staff in the same bucket. Because the parent was talking about rewarding good job. The kitchen staff and the owners are both a factor in your good time and invisible during that time. If that's a honest opinion about the purpose of tips, then I don't see why owners/managers shouldn't share the pool. They run the place, created the environment, hired the people interacting with you. Then there are managers who deal with day-to-day issues in the place, right? But that's not true of course - it's about owners not paying people properly.
  - lettergram 6y ago
    Many kitchens or even chain restaurants do share the pool... they won’t share with the owner or managers, but the crew working will. Kind of astounding reading all these comments because I don’t think any have worked in a kitchen (or perhaps a fast food joint)
    - viraptor 6y ago
      Many do, many don't, and changes are interesting. I've seen the reaction of front staff being told kitchen will share their tips - let's say they were not happy.
- andrei_says_ 6y ago
  Yes, the owners who do not pay their staff because they get it to be subsidized by tips. This now includes Uber, Lyft, Instacart etc. getting filthy rich from employing AI to maximize human exploitation and misery. Because they can.

> The people who steal the difference between a living wage and a tip-subsidized wage? The people who could "steal the difference" are usually the owners, right? Not sure why GP put the owners and kitchen staff in the same bucket. From my experience as a client in bars (without actual kitchens) in Paris, France, where tipping "isn't expected but kinda is" [0], most of the time tips are split between wait staff. So I kind of get the issue that if some waiter is going above and beyond and is nice / helpful / quick to serve / etc, whereas a colleague will do the bare minimum, when someone tips, this is diluted. As a client, I'm tipping X for the service, but this particular waiter will only get a fraction of that, the same as his low-effort colleague. I'm not really OK with that. Most places I usually go are rather small and the waiters seem comparable, so I guess it's not usually an issue I have in practice. However, there are other, usually larger places where quality of service varies much more, and I'm usually much less inclined to tip in those places. I've also heard from bar staff having worked in such places that there indeed is more tension between staff, along the lines of "so and so just waits around / doesn't do anything". Wouldn't be surprised that the complainer wouldn't be all too happy to split their tips in such a case. --- [0] Technically, in France, prices are "all-inclusive", that means service is already included in the price, so you don't have to tip. However, at least in bars around Paris, I've noticed that it's somewhat expected to get a tip, especially when clients are considered "difficult" (though I'm unable to exactly quantify that).

viraptor 6y ago
> Not sure why GP put the owners and kitchen staff in the same bucket. Because the parent was talking about rewarding good job. The kitchen staff and the owners are both a factor in your good time and invisible during that time. If that's a honest opinion about the purpose of tips, then I don't see why owners/managers shouldn't share the pool. They run the place, created the environment, hired the people interacting with you. Then there are managers who deal with day-to-day issues in the place, right? But that's not true of course - it's about owners not paying people properly.
- lettergram 6y ago
  Many kitchens or even chain restaurants do share the pool... they won’t share with the owner or managers, but the crew working will. Kind of astounding reading all these comments because I don’t think any have worked in a kitchen (or perhaps a fast food joint)
  - viraptor 6y ago
    Many do, many don't, and changes are interesting. I've seen the reaction of front staff being told kitchen will share their tips - let's say they were not happy.
andrei_says_ 6y ago
Yes, the owners who do not pay their staff because they get it to be subsidized by tips. This now includes Uber, Lyft, Instacart etc. getting filthy rich from employing AI to maximize human exploitation and misery. Because they can.