4 ms·

I don’t think you’ve worked a job where you got tipped, have you? It’s actually one of the few ways people can make a lot of money for doing a good job. What y

I don’t think you’ve worked a job where you got tipped, have you? It’s actually one of the few ways people can make a lot of money for doing a good job. What you describe punishes hard work, the people getting tips would hate it.

deepsun 6y ago
The best service I've seen in Japan. And they get offended by tips.
imgabe 6y ago
Most jobs don't have tips. People working in them still manage to do a good job and many of them make a lot more than people in tipped jobs do.
- trowawee 6y ago
  My PM doesn’t tip me when I complete a ticket quickly; I don’t tip QA when they catch a bug in my code; the on-call engineer doesn’t tip me when some docs I wrote save them a few hours of time fixing an issue I saw during my last on-call rotation. And yet! The company seems to keep making money and doing well, and we all seem to like each other (mostly, except for that one guy, but he doesn’t like anyone).
  - apsurd 6y ago
    tip based jobs are overwhelmingly minimum wage. of course we can argue whether that’s cause or effect, but the point is, it makes very little sense to compare literally “the minimum allowable threshold for legal employment” to professional salaried employees.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      It makes all the sense because a common argument in favor of tipping is “it improves service” or that it “rewards good service”. In reality, it’s a gesture of pity for those who earn little, and who we don’t want to pay properly via decent wage regulations and increase product prices, but we want them to dance for us and have them hope we will toss a few coins their way. In the process, we get to feel good like benevolent dictators who have chosen to be generous and share their wealth.
dealforager 6y ago
Most of the information I've read about this says that tips do not correlate with job performance. Instead, things like race, sex, attractiveness, and other things have a bigger impact. I've even caught myself doing this, where I'll realize after the fact that the only reason I tipped extra was because I noticed the worker was either a very attractive woman/man. It's not even sexual attraction since I'm not attracted to men. My guess is that I'm more likely to notice good service if I first notice the server, which happens more when they are attractive.
- Fogest 6y ago
  It's likely similar to that bias where attractive people also progress faster in jobs. Even if you're not personally attracted to them, you still have that bias.
Ericson2314 6y ago
What about the customers just in a bad mood taking it out on you? What about the restaurants that pay sub-minimimum wage before tips? (basically a tax dodge.) I'm not saying all bonus-based comp is bad, but it's rather out of place for nominally unskilled labor especially when it is a huge portion of total comp. The fact of the matter is the economics of much restaurant work it totally wack. I look forward to a cyberchill future of near-fully-automated cheaper-than-cooking-at-home not-cooked-to-order restaurants with an owner-masterchef as the only human in the operations.
nine_k 6y ago
I've actually seen how a restaurant is run. Waiters put the tips into a common pot, then split equally. It was their idea. Drivers, who don't work in close proximity to each other, may have it differently, of course.
- edgyquant 6y ago
  This isn’t every restaurant though. My ex-wife used to be a waitress and if there was a pooled tip jar she immediately began looking for a different place without one. Drivers, otoh, usually make at least minimum wage but then they need that money for gas as well.
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    If your wife is broadly viewed as attractive and working in the half of employees at her business which interacts with the public she may benefit more than average from tips which provides a poor justification for making a decision if the broad welfare of all employees in tipped industries is concerned.
    - edgyquant 6y ago
      I was only commenting on the pooling of tips which isn’t something every place does
      - michaelmrose 6y ago
        In any situation where the following benefits accrue A: 80 B: 80 C: 80 A would logically prefer a situation where the following benefits accrue even with total outcomes being on average worse because A is logically and understandably primarily interested in their own well being. A: 100 B: 50 C: 50 Tips are better for the employer because they fan advertise a price n where the customer will be expected to pay n+10-25% Pooled tips are better on average because the extra tax the employer is able to levy accrues to everyone. Non pooled tips are better for attractive people or those who are much more competent than their peers. No tips and actually paying employees what they are worth is even better.
viraptor 6y ago
Apart from other responses pretty much disproving this, consider which people you're rewarding. Not every place will share the tips with cooks / dish washers / owners / etc. It actually causes conflicts in those places (don't share -> kitchen hates front staff; share -> front staff hates kitchen).
- andrei_says_ 6y ago
  The people who steal the difference between a living wage and a tip-subsidized wage? Subsidized by us, who pay twice?
  - vladvasiliu 6y ago
    > The people who steal the difference between a living wage and a tip-subsidized wage? The people who could "steal the difference" are usually the owners, right? Not sure why GP put the owners and kitchen staff in the same bucket. From my experience as a client in bars (without actual kitchens) in Paris, France, where tipping "isn't expected but kinda is" [0], most of the time tips are split between wait staff. So I kind of get the issue that if some waiter is going above and beyond and is nice / helpful / quick to serve / etc, whereas a colleague will do the bare minimum, when someone tips, this is diluted. As a client, I'm tipping X for the service, but this particular waiter will only get a fraction of that, the same as his low-effort colleague. I'm not really OK with that. Most places I usually go are rather small and the waiters seem comparable, so I guess it's not usually an issue I have in practice. However, there are other, usually larger places where quality of service varies much more, and I'm usually much less inclined to tip in those places. I've also heard from bar staff having worked in such places that there indeed is more tension between staff, along the lines of "so and so just waits around / doesn't do anything". Wouldn't be surprised that the complainer wouldn't be all too happy to split their tips in such a case. --- [0] Technically, in France, prices are "all-inclusive", that means service is already included in the price, so you don't have to tip. However, at least in bars around Paris, I've noticed that it's somewhat expected to get a tip, especially when clients are considered "difficult" (though I'm unable to exactly quantify that).
baby 6y ago
I worked at McDonalds in the kitchen, didn’t get tipped.
franklampard 6y ago
Employer not paying enough punishes hard work
baby 6y ago
Agree, thanks to the tipping culture I can sit in a restaurant with my friends and be asked every 5min if everything is good. Then at the end I can decide how much they will make from me, nothing or a bunch? Maybe I’ll discriminate and judge how much they deserve based on how they look.
- katbyte 6y ago
  Ugh I hate the being asked every 5min things are good. Much prefer dining in Europe where it’s not thenorm
worik 6y ago
I do not want the wait staff who serve me to do a great, or even a good, job. I want them to do a adequate job. Good enough is good enough for me.

deepsun 6y ago

The best service I've seen in Japan. And they get offended by tips.

imgabe 6y ago

Most jobs don't have tips. People working in them still manage to do a good job and many of them make a lot more than people in tipped jobs do.

trowawee 6y ago
My PM doesn’t tip me when I complete a ticket quickly; I don’t tip QA when they catch a bug in my code; the on-call engineer doesn’t tip me when some docs I wrote save them a few hours of time fixing an issue I saw during my last on-call rotation. And yet! The company seems to keep making money and doing well, and we all seem to like each other (mostly, except for that one guy, but he doesn’t like anyone).
- apsurd 6y ago
  tip based jobs are overwhelmingly minimum wage. of course we can argue whether that’s cause or effect, but the point is, it makes very little sense to compare literally “the minimum allowable threshold for legal employment” to professional salaried employees.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    It makes all the sense because a common argument in favor of tipping is “it improves service” or that it “rewards good service”. In reality, it’s a gesture of pity for those who earn little, and who we don’t want to pay properly via decent wage regulations and increase product prices, but we want them to dance for us and have them hope we will toss a few coins their way. In the process, we get to feel good like benevolent dictators who have chosen to be generous and share their wealth.

dealforager 6y ago

Most of the information I've read about this says that tips do not correlate with job performance. Instead, things like race, sex, attractiveness, and other things have a bigger impact. I've even caught myself doing this, where I'll realize after the fact that the only reason I tipped extra was because I noticed the worker was either a very attractive woman/man. It's not even sexual attraction since I'm not attracted to men. My guess is that I'm more likely to notice good service if I first notice the server, which happens more when they are attractive.

Fogest 6y ago
It's likely similar to that bias where attractive people also progress faster in jobs. Even if you're not personally attracted to them, you still have that bias.

Ericson2314 6y ago

What about the customers just in a bad mood taking it out on you? What about the restaurants that pay sub-minimimum wage before tips? (basically a tax dodge.) I'm not saying all bonus-based comp is bad, but it's rather out of place for nominally unskilled labor especially when it is a huge portion of total comp. The fact of the matter is the economics of much restaurant work it totally wack. I look forward to a cyberchill future of near-fully-automated cheaper-than-cooking-at-home not-cooked-to-order restaurants with an owner-masterchef as the only human in the operations.

nine_k 6y ago

I've actually seen how a restaurant is run. Waiters put the tips into a common pot, then split equally. It was their idea. Drivers, who don't work in close proximity to each other, may have it differently, of course.

edgyquant 6y ago
This isn’t every restaurant though. My ex-wife used to be a waitress and if there was a pooled tip jar she immediately began looking for a different place without one. Drivers, otoh, usually make at least minimum wage but then they need that money for gas as well.
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  If your wife is broadly viewed as attractive and working in the half of employees at her business which interacts with the public she may benefit more than average from tips which provides a poor justification for making a decision if the broad welfare of all employees in tipped industries is concerned.
  - edgyquant 6y ago
    I was only commenting on the pooling of tips which isn’t something every place does
    - michaelmrose 6y ago
      In any situation where the following benefits accrue A: 80 B: 80 C: 80 A would logically prefer a situation where the following benefits accrue even with total outcomes being on average worse because A is logically and understandably primarily interested in their own well being. A: 100 B: 50 C: 50 Tips are better for the employer because they fan advertise a price n where the customer will be expected to pay n+10-25% Pooled tips are better on average because the extra tax the employer is able to levy accrues to everyone. Non pooled tips are better for attractive people or those who are much more competent than their peers. No tips and actually paying employees what they are worth is even better.

viraptor 6y ago

Apart from other responses pretty much disproving this, consider which people you're rewarding. Not every place will share the tips with cooks / dish washers / owners / etc. It actually causes conflicts in those places (don't share -> kitchen hates front staff; share -> front staff hates kitchen).

andrei_says_ 6y ago
The people who steal the difference between a living wage and a tip-subsidized wage? Subsidized by us, who pay twice?
- vladvasiliu 6y ago
  > The people who steal the difference between a living wage and a tip-subsidized wage? The people who could "steal the difference" are usually the owners, right? Not sure why GP put the owners and kitchen staff in the same bucket. From my experience as a client in bars (without actual kitchens) in Paris, France, where tipping "isn't expected but kinda is" [0], most of the time tips are split between wait staff. So I kind of get the issue that if some waiter is going above and beyond and is nice / helpful / quick to serve / etc, whereas a colleague will do the bare minimum, when someone tips, this is diluted. As a client, I'm tipping X for the service, but this particular waiter will only get a fraction of that, the same as his low-effort colleague. I'm not really OK with that. Most places I usually go are rather small and the waiters seem comparable, so I guess it's not usually an issue I have in practice. However, there are other, usually larger places where quality of service varies much more, and I'm usually much less inclined to tip in those places. I've also heard from bar staff having worked in such places that there indeed is more tension between staff, along the lines of "so and so just waits around / doesn't do anything". Wouldn't be surprised that the complainer wouldn't be all too happy to split their tips in such a case. --- [0] Technically, in France, prices are "all-inclusive", that means service is already included in the price, so you don't have to tip. However, at least in bars around Paris, I've noticed that it's somewhat expected to get a tip, especially when clients are considered "difficult" (though I'm unable to exactly quantify that).

baby 6y ago

I worked at McDonalds in the kitchen, didn’t get tipped.

franklampard 6y ago

Employer not paying enough punishes hard work

baby 6y ago

Agree, thanks to the tipping culture I can sit in a restaurant with my friends and be asked every 5min if everything is good. Then at the end I can decide how much they will make from me, nothing or a bunch? Maybe I’ll discriminate and judge how much they deserve based on how they look.

katbyte 6y ago
Ugh I hate the being asked every 5min things are good. Much prefer dining in Europe where it’s not thenorm

worik 6y ago

I do not want the wait staff who serve me to do a great, or even a good, job. I want them to do a adequate job. Good enough is good enough for me.