4 ms·

The left literally treated the last 4 years as an election fraud scandal that they refused to shut down. I'm generally in the center, but dislike when one part

by axaxs 6y ago

The left literally treated the last 4 years as an election fraud scandal that they refused to shut down. I'm generally in the center, but dislike when one party treats the other as solely being the problem. While I can't think of a specific qanon level of craziness on that side, they have their own, different craziness.

mikepurvis 6y ago
"The left literally treated the last 4 years as an election fraud scandal that they refused to shut down." Please cite sources for Democratic senators, congresspeople, and/or party officials advancing these claims.
- axaxs 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_impeach_Donald_Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_impeach_Donald_Trum... Has plenty of names and links to read all about it, if you missed it.
  - _underfl0w_ 6y ago
    Attempting to impeach someone based on their actions != falsely claiming election fraud in the face of evidencd (and attempting to coerce others e.g. Pence into doing so)
- throwaway3699 6y ago
  The alphabet soup networks pushing the Russia hoax for 4 years didn't convince you?
  - dane-pgp 6y ago
    Do "the alphabet soup networks" include the Senate Intelligence Committee? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Intelligence_Committee_report_on_Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Intelligence_Committee_...
  - triceratops 6y ago
    What was the hoax? The Mueller report had an entire section about Russian meddling. The investigation also indicted a number of Russian nationals.
    - throwaway3699 6y ago
      I'm not saying there wasn't an investigation, but I'm not convinced by the evidence after reading that document. The biggest thing that I saw was the ad spend was very small (<$1M)
      - mikeyouse 6y ago
        And of course the hack and leak of Podesta and DNC that led to a billion dollars of earned media for Trump.
        throwaway3699 6y ago
        Which makes much more sense as to why Trump won than a delusional Russian conspiracy theory...
        mikeyouse 6y ago
        The Russians hacked the emails - How is it then a conspiracy theory? These things are all facts: Trump asked the Russians to hack Hillary, and hours later they began probing the Clinton domains. Russian government hacked Podesta Russian government hacked the DNC Russian government gave those emails to Wikileaks to hurt Hillary / boost Trump and they were weaponized explicitly to do so (e.g. the Podesta release coming hours after the President was on tape bragging about grabbing women by the pussy) Russian businessmen, closely linked to the government spent millions of dollars on a social media campaign to boost Trump Trump's campaign took several meetings with Russians offering help with the election, including explicit meetings offered as "Part of the government's assistance to the Trump campaign" and then lied to the press and the government when asked about those meetings Trump's campaign manager gave private polling data to several Russians, including a probable spy Trump dangled pardons for his team if they didn't cooperate with the investigation Trump pardoned those people who didn't cooperate with the investigation Trump's team changed the entire GOP platform to be more friendly to Russia Trump's transition team took clandestine meetings to promise to remove sanctions that were in place for the above activity. Trump's son-in-law offered to take meetings in the Russian embassy to be out of range of US intelligence. So far as I can tell, the "Hoax" that people are adamant about refers to the Mueller finding where they couldn't prove that any of the above was coordinated - And it very well might not have been! - but to say that it was a hoax that Russia helped Trump win is so silly.
- jwond 6y ago
  > Our election was hijacked. There is no question. Congress has a duty to #ProtectOurDemocracy & #FollowTheFacts. - Nancy Pelosi on May 16, 2017 https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/864522009048494080 https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/864522009048494080
  - scythe 6y ago
    The Senate Intelligence Committee and the Mueller Report both concluded that Russian propaganda affected the election. What was not shown was that Trump offered any support ("collusion") for these efforts. Simply complaining about Russian propaganda like this is hyperbolic, but not a conspiracy theory.
- panny 6y ago
  https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/05/17/disinformation-from-schiff-media-damaged-america/ https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/05/17/disinformation-from-... "Even after the Mueller report clearly indicated that there was no provable collusion or coordination between the Russian government and the Trump campaign, Schiff continued to propagate the lie."
  - triceratops 6y ago
    > the Mueller report clearly indicated that there was no provable collusion or coordination between the Russian government and the Trump campaign Except that it didn't, really. "there was knowing and complicit behavior between the Trump campaign and Russians that stopped short of direct coordination, which may constitute conspiracy"[1] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mueller_report#Redacted_report_findings_compared_to_Barr_letter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mueller_report#Redacted_report...
    - cudgy 6y ago
      Can that conclusion be any more mealy-mouthed?
    - panny 6y ago
      You are realtime evidence for mikepurvis to see that the left never let go of the Russiagate conspiracy theory. Thanks for helping me to prove my point here.
- trollski 6y ago
  hello fellow troll
munk-a 6y ago
That's an interesting view to have - I know that at the start of Trump's term there was a lot of discussion about Comey's involvement and Russia that I really just wish people would shut up about. Most of that died down after the Mueller report. And by the end of his term Trump was (IMO) pretty blatantly trying to subvert the election. Where do you get your news, if I may ask?
- axaxs 6y ago
  The Mueller report was released in 2019, 3 years after the election. Perhaps 4 years was incorrect of me to state. If your last question is in earnest...I guess nowhere in particular and yet everywhere. I don't particularly like any of the news media companies, as I find they all have a blatant bias.
  - loopz 6y ago
    There is a disturbing trend of news media. It's how they have to turn a profit, and starting to quote social media. That is not reporting, and news should be balanced, not just opinions and rage. However, in front of Tea Party, Trumpism and coup attempt, sadly outrage and calls for accountability are rightly justified.
hooande 6y ago
You couldn't think of an equivalent of qanon for the left, so you just elevated some minor critique until it satisfied your desire to say "both sides" and shut down any actual analysis. THIS is the problem!
eyelidlessness 6y ago
> The left literally treated the last 4 years as an election fraud scandal that they refused to shut down. Hi, I'm "the left", at least for the purposes of this conversation. The left did no such thing. I tried to get us to do so because there was clearly a fraudulent election. But it didn't matter what I said, the left didn't want to hear none of it. They were more concerned (legitimately) about Russophobia and not giving too much legitimacy to the alphabet soup agencies.

by axaxs 6y ago

mikepurvis 6y ago

"The left literally treated the last 4 years as an election fraud scandal that they refused to shut down." Please cite sources for Democratic senators, congresspeople, and/or party officials advancing these claims.

axaxs 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_impeach_Donald_Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_impeach_Donald_Trum... Has plenty of names and links to read all about it, if you missed it.
- _underfl0w_ 6y ago
  Attempting to impeach someone based on their actions != falsely claiming election fraud in the face of evidencd (and attempting to coerce others e.g. Pence into doing so)
throwaway3699 6y ago
The alphabet soup networks pushing the Russia hoax for 4 years didn't convince you?
- dane-pgp 6y ago
  Do "the alphabet soup networks" include the Senate Intelligence Committee? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Intelligence_Committee_report_on_Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Intelligence_Committee_...
- triceratops 6y ago
  What was the hoax? The Mueller report had an entire section about Russian meddling. The investigation also indicted a number of Russian nationals.
  - throwaway3699 6y ago
    I'm not saying there wasn't an investigation, but I'm not convinced by the evidence after reading that document. The biggest thing that I saw was the ad spend was very small (<$1M)
    - mikeyouse 6y ago
      And of course the hack and leak of Podesta and DNC that led to a billion dollars of earned media for Trump.
      - throwaway3699 6y ago
        Which makes much more sense as to why Trump won than a delusional Russian conspiracy theory...
        mikeyouse 6y ago
        The Russians hacked the emails - How is it then a conspiracy theory? These things are all facts: Trump asked the Russians to hack Hillary, and hours later they began probing the Clinton domains. Russian government hacked Podesta Russian government hacked the DNC Russian government gave those emails to Wikileaks to hurt Hillary / boost Trump and they were weaponized explicitly to do so (e.g. the Podesta release coming hours after the President was on tape bragging about grabbing women by the pussy) Russian businessmen, closely linked to the government spent millions of dollars on a social media campaign to boost Trump Trump's campaign took several meetings with Russians offering help with the election, including explicit meetings offered as "Part of the government's assistance to the Trump campaign" and then lied to the press and the government when asked about those meetings Trump's campaign manager gave private polling data to several Russians, including a probable spy Trump dangled pardons for his team if they didn't cooperate with the investigation Trump pardoned those people who didn't cooperate with the investigation Trump's team changed the entire GOP platform to be more friendly to Russia Trump's transition team took clandestine meetings to promise to remove sanctions that were in place for the above activity. Trump's son-in-law offered to take meetings in the Russian embassy to be out of range of US intelligence. So far as I can tell, the "Hoax" that people are adamant about refers to the Mueller finding where they couldn't prove that any of the above was coordinated - And it very well might not have been! - but to say that it was a hoax that Russia helped Trump win is so silly.
jwond 6y ago
> Our election was hijacked. There is no question. Congress has a duty to #ProtectOurDemocracy & #FollowTheFacts. - Nancy Pelosi on May 16, 2017 https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/864522009048494080 https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/864522009048494080
- scythe 6y ago
  The Senate Intelligence Committee and the Mueller Report both concluded that Russian propaganda affected the election. What was not shown was that Trump offered any support ("collusion") for these efforts. Simply complaining about Russian propaganda like this is hyperbolic, but not a conspiracy theory.
panny 6y ago
https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/05/17/disinformation-from-schiff-media-damaged-america/ https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/05/17/disinformation-from-... "Even after the Mueller report clearly indicated that there was no provable collusion or coordination between the Russian government and the Trump campaign, Schiff continued to propagate the lie."
- triceratops 6y ago
  > the Mueller report clearly indicated that there was no provable collusion or coordination between the Russian government and the Trump campaign Except that it didn't, really. "there was knowing and complicit behavior between the Trump campaign and Russians that stopped short of direct coordination, which may constitute conspiracy"[1] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mueller_report#Redacted_report_findings_compared_to_Barr_letter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mueller_report#Redacted_report...
  - cudgy 6y ago
    Can that conclusion be any more mealy-mouthed?
  - panny 6y ago
    You are realtime evidence for mikepurvis to see that the left never let go of the Russiagate conspiracy theory. Thanks for helping me to prove my point here.
trollski 6y ago
hello fellow troll

munk-a 6y ago

That's an interesting view to have - I know that at the start of Trump's term there was a lot of discussion about Comey's involvement and Russia that I really just wish people would shut up about. Most of that died down after the Mueller report. And by the end of his term Trump was (IMO) pretty blatantly trying to subvert the election. Where do you get your news, if I may ask?

axaxs 6y ago
The Mueller report was released in 2019, 3 years after the election. Perhaps 4 years was incorrect of me to state. If your last question is in earnest...I guess nowhere in particular and yet everywhere. I don't particularly like any of the news media companies, as I find they all have a blatant bias.
- loopz 6y ago
  There is a disturbing trend of news media. It's how they have to turn a profit, and starting to quote social media. That is not reporting, and news should be balanced, not just opinions and rage. However, in front of Tea Party, Trumpism and coup attempt, sadly outrage and calls for accountability are rightly justified.

hooande 6y ago

You couldn't think of an equivalent of qanon for the left, so you just elevated some minor critique until it satisfied your desire to say "both sides" and shut down any actual analysis. THIS is the problem!

eyelidlessness 6y ago

> The left literally treated the last 4 years as an election fraud scandal that they refused to shut down. Hi, I'm "the left", at least for the purposes of this conversation. The left did no such thing. I tried to get us to do so because there was clearly a fraudulent election. But it didn't matter what I said, the left didn't want to hear none of it. They were more concerned (legitimately) about Russophobia and not giving too much legitimacy to the alphabet soup agencies.