7 ms·
After seeing a few of the sites go down it seemed like a good idea to put it under source control. I don't claim rights to any of these works.
by ianhanschen 6y ago
After seeing a few of the sites go down it seemed like a good idea to put it under source control. I don't claim rights to any of these works.
- teddyh 6y ago> I don't claim rights to any of these works. That’s not how copyright works.
- ianhanschen 6y ago(Deleted grumbling)
- striking 6y agoI understand the urge to handwave away copyright or whatever, but it would be nice to at least see some attribution or the links from which you obtained the fonts. The people who made the content you're redistributing would probably appreciate that.
- hombre_fatal 6y agoOh well, ask for forgiveness, not permission. Zero people are going to press claims on this repo. And I'll make the easy wager that nobody who made any of these fonts are ever going to know about (much less care about) this repo. We bootlick/grandstand over the weirdest things on this forum. Demosceners caring about another hacker publishing or using their font? Oh bother.
- striking 6y agoWhat a strangely uncivil response. I was trying to meet folks in the middle here and at least kindly suggest some attribution as a reply to some now (appreciably) deleted grumbling. I'm not trying to impress anyone by suggesting it, it's just the right thing to do if you can do it.
- Blahah 6y agoIt's not necessarily the right thing to do. If creators don't leave any trace, especially in a community where sharing freely and without credit is commonplace, one shouldn't impose one's own moral lens.
- ianhanschen 6y agoIf I still had this information I would.
- karaterobot 6y agoOn the other hand, a lot of resources languish and ultimately disappear due to rights issues, not because of a dispute, but because they just can't be settled. For example, the original rights holder cannot be determined or located to give their permission. I suspect that might be the case here, and I personally would rather these cultural artifacts be archived in good faith than the literal letter of copyright law is adhered to, likely to the detriment of everybody.
- TheRealPomax 6y agoAnd that's fine: Github has a perfectly reasonable dispute resolution procedure, where rights holders first get to contact the repo owner to either remove or properly attribute their work. And if that doesn't lead to a satisfactory resolution, they can file a DMCA takedown notice and force the issue.
- ianhanschen 6y agoYep. I am fine with artists contacting me if they want their work credited or removed. I only did it because it seemed like a good idea to secure them somewhere.
- gabereiser 6y agoThis is a perfectly reasonable response. I would even say in a readme “hey, I don’t know where all this came from originally, contact me if it’s you” or something along those lines. It’s fine though. These bitmap fonts are awesome even if a little light on char support. What would be really cool is an xml or json file with the rect positions of the chars in the charmap.
- ianhanschen 6y agoGood call. https://github.com/ianhan/BitmapFonts/commit/255f865af0dfbe799101159da2da77493bcf36a6 https://github.com/ianhan/BitmapFonts/commit/255f865af0dfbe7...
- bobsmooth 6y agoUploading to archive.org would also be a good idea.
- buzzert 6y agoSome demoscene hacker filing a copyright claim against this would be incredibly lame though.
- rob74 6y agoAgree, but these are not just demoscene fonts, for example I also found the fonts from the original Lemmings game(s) (https://github.com/ianhan/BitmapFonts/blob/main/lemblue.png https://github.com/ianhan/BitmapFonts/blob/main/lemblue.png) which were of course part of a commercial project. But as the games themselves are available as "abandonware" on various sites and Sony (who is sitting on the rights to the Lemmings franchise and not doing much with it) hasn't objected to that yet, I wouldn't worry too much...
- zeta0134 6y agoMy very, very loose understanding is that bitmap fonts in the US have a bit of a special protection against copyright, with the logic being that their public utility outweighs the benefit of enforcing these restrictions. Vector fonts not so much, but as these are all in PNG form, they seem exempt: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/fonts-faq/part2/ http://www.faqs.org/faqs/fonts-faq/part2/ IANAL, this is a US-based understanding and other countries have different rules, clarification welcome, other usual disclaimers, etc.
- ctdonath 6y agoHaving dealt with font legalities (IANAL) while writing a bare-metal printer driver: rendered characters are not copyrightable. Method of rendering may be, but not final output.
- kqr 6y agoSo does a bitmap specifying which pixels to light up count as a rendered character or a method of rendering?
- frabert 6y agoMaybe, but that's definitely not copyrighted by the font maker.
- deelowe 6y agoSo is it illegal to host the Menlo font on github? It's my preferred monospace font, but can be sometimes hard to find and there several "open" copies. That claim to not be encumbered. Isn't there also "non-free" font repos in debian?
- userbinator 6y agoVector fonts not so much, but as these are all in PNG form, they seem exempt I believe this is also why all the free vector fonts (that look almost if not exactly identical to famous, $$$ ones) can exist with no legal trouble --- if someone renders to bitmap a paid font and then traces it, the resulting vector font is then considered a work of that person instead. In other words, the copyright is on the exact point positions, and not the final shape; so any series of points that reproduces that shape will do.
- arexxbifs 6y agoMy take: * Collecting these for historical and inspirational purposes feels OK, but slapping some credits on there should be top priority. * If someone uses them without permission from the original author, they will automatically become lamers forever, suffer public shaming in scrolltexts and live thenceforth as social outcasts.
- TheDong 6y ago> If someone uses them without permission from the original author You mean like this person, who without permission from the original authors posted them on github?
- arexxbifs 6y agoSure, technically it's ripping and spreading but no different from ripping a pic you like from a demo and spreading that, which I would feel OK with if it was properly credited. I think the lack of credits here is disconcerting but on the scene, there's a constant unsolicited spreading, uploading and sharing of material - especially nowadays, for historical reasons. I've had pics ripped and used in other people's productions without credit. It's a bit flattering but mostly it's just annoying; I would have said yes right away if asked. On the other hand, I have my pics and (recordings of) demos uploaded to various sites all the time which is OK as long as I'm credited. I've slapped a copyright claim on one of my demos on Youtube once, but only because the guy who ripped it did such a crappy job it was completely unwatchable. Edit: What I'm trying to say is that the scene in general has its own take on copyright and fair use. For example, check out http://scrolltexts.com/ http://scrolltexts.com/
- TedDoesntTalk 6y agoI wish scrolltexts.com wasn’t just c64.... need Apple 2
- GuB-42 6y agoConsidering that the demoscene comes from warez scene and still have ties with it, a formal copyright claim against this site would be extremely ironic, and as someone else mentioned, lame. Looking at the file names, I noticed Skidrow, Razor 1911 and TRSI, there are certainly many others. These are names you might recognize ;)
- nullc 6y agoTypefaces nor bitmap fonts are copyrightable.
- racingmars 6y agoI'd love to see a reference to US case law to substantiate this claim. I'm pretty sure if I bought a font from Adobe and posted it online, they'd take issue with it. Is the particular implementation of a font eligible for copyright but the "design" isn't if I copy it and make my own font that looks the same?
- MaulingMonkey 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_protection_of_typefaces#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_protecti... references https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/37/202.1 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/37/202.1 which explicitly states that typefaces aren't subject to copyright. Encumbering every piece of printed text with the copyright of the typefaces in question would be... problematic. That said: programs which render text (this includes typical font formats like ttf which can have all kinds of kerning and hinting information so the fonts look good at multiple resolutions) can be copyrighted - they're not just typefaces, after all - so you're right that Adobe would take issue with just copying their font files. > Is the particular implementation of a font eligible for copyright but the "design" isn't if I copy it and make my own font that looks the same? That's roughly my understanding, yes, although I'm not a lawyer. It's also worth noting that trademark can incorporate typefaces/fonts - so if you're making yet another sugary beverage, you might not want to pick the same distinctive typeface as Coca-Cola for your main logo.
- wyldfire 6y agoI don't understand your objection. Disclaiming the rights is a matter of clarification for those who might consume the works in the repo. The archiver is making it explicit that they cannot publish the works under $YOUR_FAVORITE_LICENSE because the works aren't theirs to license. Disclaiming the rights doesn't grant any license nor does it protect the archiver from infringement claims. I don't think there was any suggestion that was the case.
- tinus_hn 6y agoCopyright means the real owner has the right to object to his action. Good luck.
- dajohnson89 6y agois there a good online collection of demoscene videos?
- z303 6y agoBoth http://www.pouet.net/ http://www.pouet.net/ and https://demozoo.org/ https://demozoo.org/ have video links for many of the productions. You also have channels like https://www.youtube.com/c/DemosceneTV/ https://www.youtube.com/c/DemosceneTV/ and https://www.youtube.com/user/TheDemoTube/ https://www.youtube.com/user/TheDemoTube/ on YouTube