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When you mentioned Germany, I chuckled a little. Worked there for many years and corruption and lack of professionalism I witness in IT section was astonishing.

When you mentioned Germany, I chuckled a little. Worked there for many years and corruption and lack of professionalism I witness in IT section was astonishing. At least here in US corporate corruption is not blunt; nobody here - like it happened to me in Germany - will meet you for the first time, listen to your case and then ask for $15,000 Euro bribe. Here is a good start how terrible German ethics are: https://www.dw.com/en/image-problems-mount-in-corporate-germany/a-16460233 https://www.dw.com/en/image-problems-mount-in-corporate-germ... And then my favorite case of corrupted to the core Siemens: https://theconversation.com/lessons-from-the-massive-siemens-corruption-scandal-one-decade-later-108694 https://theconversation.com/lessons-from-the-massive-siemens...

systemvoltage 6y ago
Thanks for the contrast. We also know the VW scandal. As I said, this is a broad generalization from my own experience with mid-sized firms in China. I can only expect larger unethical behavior with CCP members in the board meetings. At least in EU/Germany, you don't have the Government asking you to do shady things without due process. Worse, unspoken threat and chilling effect executives and leadership team would have to appease the CCP members. There was a recent example of this - Jack Ma.
- okl 6y ago
  > At least in EU/Germany, you don't have the Government asking you to do shady things without due process. Sure? https://www.dw.com/en/internet-exchange-de-cix-accuses-german-spies-of-illegal-data-siphoning/a-44002141 https://www.dw.com/en/internet-exchange-de-cix-accuses-germa...
- onethought 6y ago
  How’s Jack Ma related to your trust in Hua wei? It was a different company and it wasn’t just random interference from the government it was the other way round. Jack Ma started using his position to interfere with government.
  - systemvoltage 6y ago
    I think it's very much related. Can you imagine Jeff Bezos disappearing for 2 months because he didn't appease the US Feds? Now imagine the chilling effect it would send to the rest of the executives from small to large corporations.
    - onethought 6y ago
      It’s not comparable... China isn’t a democracy and free speech isn’t a thing. Can I imagine Jeff bezos being arrested for committing a federal crime: yes
      - systemvoltage 6y ago
        Speaking out against the government is a crime? Did Jack Ma get a trial?
        onethought 6y ago
        Yes. It is a crime. Depending on the type of crime, you may or may not get a public trial.
      - sgift 6y ago
        > It’s not comparable... China isn’t a democracy and free speech isn’t a thing. And that makes it right? Or are we on the "it's their culture, so we aren't allowed to be critical of it" bandwagon?
        onethought 6y ago
        You can be critical, sure. But applying your sense of right and wrong doesn’t make much sense.
    - throw2102032112 6y ago
      In my eyes, Jeff Bezos is constantly disappearing. I mean, he's only in the media spotlight once every few months right? I'd dread to think what happens to him while he's missing during those media lapses...
mywittyname 6y ago
I've worked for a few German mega-corps and I was always struck by how in point their "anti-bribery" training was. It kind of felt like a "how-to" course on bribery where they just tell you not to do the thing at the end. Kind of like those anti-drug campaigns in schools where the police would tell you about all the different drugs and how not to use them. "This here is crack cocaine, it's like regular cocaine but cheaper and more effective. Most people put the crack rock into a glass tube and light it with a torch. Now smoking crack makes your body feel better than anything in the world. So don't do it." Then they tell you how to spot a drug dealer and let you know that most offer free samples.
nickbauman 6y ago
Regarding Siemens it reminds me of John Perkins' book Confessions of an Economic Hit Man about the engineering firm Chas T Main. Bribes are merely one technique to obtain power by companies like these. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit...

systemvoltage 6y ago

Thanks for the contrast. We also know the VW scandal. As I said, this is a broad generalization from my own experience with mid-sized firms in China. I can only expect larger unethical behavior with CCP members in the board meetings. At least in EU/Germany, you don't have the Government asking you to do shady things without due process. Worse, unspoken threat and chilling effect executives and leadership team would have to appease the CCP members. There was a recent example of this - Jack Ma.

okl 6y ago
> At least in EU/Germany, you don't have the Government asking you to do shady things without due process. Sure? https://www.dw.com/en/internet-exchange-de-cix-accuses-german-spies-of-illegal-data-siphoning/a-44002141 https://www.dw.com/en/internet-exchange-de-cix-accuses-germa...
onethought 6y ago
How’s Jack Ma related to your trust in Hua wei? It was a different company and it wasn’t just random interference from the government it was the other way round. Jack Ma started using his position to interfere with government.
- systemvoltage 6y ago
  I think it's very much related. Can you imagine Jeff Bezos disappearing for 2 months because he didn't appease the US Feds? Now imagine the chilling effect it would send to the rest of the executives from small to large corporations.
  - onethought 6y ago
    It’s not comparable... China isn’t a democracy and free speech isn’t a thing. Can I imagine Jeff bezos being arrested for committing a federal crime: yes
    - systemvoltage 6y ago
      Speaking out against the government is a crime? Did Jack Ma get a trial?
      - onethought 6y ago
        Yes. It is a crime. Depending on the type of crime, you may or may not get a public trial.
    - sgift 6y ago
      > It’s not comparable... China isn’t a democracy and free speech isn’t a thing. And that makes it right? Or are we on the "it's their culture, so we aren't allowed to be critical of it" bandwagon?
      - onethought 6y ago
        You can be critical, sure. But applying your sense of right and wrong doesn’t make much sense.
  - throw2102032112 6y ago
    In my eyes, Jeff Bezos is constantly disappearing. I mean, he's only in the media spotlight once every few months right? I'd dread to think what happens to him while he's missing during those media lapses...

mywittyname 6y ago

I've worked for a few German mega-corps and I was always struck by how in point their "anti-bribery" training was. It kind of felt like a "how-to" course on bribery where they just tell you not to do the thing at the end. Kind of like those anti-drug campaigns in schools where the police would tell you about all the different drugs and how not to use them. "This here is crack cocaine, it's like regular cocaine but cheaper and more effective. Most people put the crack rock into a glass tube and light it with a torch. Now smoking crack makes your body feel better than anything in the world. So don't do it." Then they tell you how to spot a drug dealer and let you know that most offer free samples.

nickbauman 6y ago

Regarding Siemens it reminds me of John Perkins' book Confessions of an Economic Hit Man about the engineering firm Chas T Main. Bribes are merely one technique to obtain power by companies like these. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit...