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Is there any reason to believe that billionaires don't cheat more? I don't think billionaires are rich because they're more talented. I think they're rich bec

Is there any reason to believe that billionaires don't cheat more? I don't think billionaires are rich because they're more talented. I think they're rich because they're more opportunistic and, quite frankly, shittier human beings.

hnburnsy 6y ago
From the IRS... 'IRS estimates that between 21 percent to 26 percent of EITC claims are paid in error. Some of the errors are unintentional caused by the complexity of the law, but some of the claims are intentional disregard of the law'
- MegaButts 6y ago
  That statistic is irrelevant since it doesn't distinguish between rich and poor. But the IRS has publicly admitted to not pursuing rich people because "it's too hard." https://www.gq.com/story/no-irs-audits-for-the-rich https://www.gq.com/story/no-irs-audits-for-the-rich
  - hnburnsy 6y ago
    Income audit rates... Income Range/Percent Examined 2015 1-$25,0000/.66 … $10,000,000+/8.16 "The typical audits for higher-income taxpayers involve at least three different tax years, often include related entities, and routinely take years to resolve. The highest income taxpayers face the most significant chance of an examination, and they face the most highly trained and experienced IRS agents and teams utilizing our most sophisticated tools and techniques." https://www.irs.gov/about-irs/irs-audit-rates-significantly-increase-as-income-rises https://www.irs.gov/about-irs/irs-audit-rates-significantly-...
    - MegaButts 6y ago
      Thank you. This is much more useful!
WalterBright 6y ago
> I think they're rich because they're more opportunistic and, quite frankly, shittier human beings. That's a common perception, but is not based on reality. May I suggest: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1061637 https://www.jstor.org/stable/1061637
- MegaButts 6y ago
  This is the most condescending response I have ever received on HN. I do not find that link helpful and it's really insulting. You immediately jump from "he doesn't agree with me" to "you are ignorant and need to be educated as such until you agree with me." Most of my perception is based on billionaires I know in real life. It's anecdata but it's enough to persuade me. I choose not to talk to one after he became rich because he became such a horrible human being. The others roughly follow the same trend. All of them are rich or became rich by shitty means.
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    If you'd written the post with that second paragraph, i.e. provided a basis for your opinion, I wouldn't have replied that way. As it was written, though, no basis was provided. The opinion was congruent with that of people who believe economics is zero-sum, which is what I inferred you meant from "shitty means". As for me, although I've personally met Steve Ballmer, Bill Gates, and Paul Allen, I hardly know them. I have read their biographies, and the biographies of many American billionaires, and would not agree that any of them came by their wealth through "shitty means". The term "shitty means" isn't exactly an economic term, and I'd be curious what you mean more specifically. I'll start by saying an ethical way to become a billionaire is by providing a product or service that people are happy to pay for. Gates, Ballmer, Allen, Jobs, Bezos, Musk, etc., all fit into that category. I'll close by apologizing to you.
    - MegaButts 6y ago
      I appreciate the apology and admit I overreacted. I owe you an apology as well. You're right - my first post did not have a lot of information, and my language was belligerent (in both of my replies). I've been having a bad day and you caught me at a bad time. That's my fault and I need to take a break from the internet. Have a good night.

hnburnsy 6y ago

From the IRS... 'IRS estimates that between 21 percent to 26 percent of EITC claims are paid in error. Some of the errors are unintentional caused by the complexity of the law, but some of the claims are intentional disregard of the law'

MegaButts 6y ago
That statistic is irrelevant since it doesn't distinguish between rich and poor. But the IRS has publicly admitted to not pursuing rich people because "it's too hard." https://www.gq.com/story/no-irs-audits-for-the-rich https://www.gq.com/story/no-irs-audits-for-the-rich
- hnburnsy 6y ago
  Income audit rates... Income Range/Percent Examined 2015 1-$25,0000/.66 … $10,000,000+/8.16 "The typical audits for higher-income taxpayers involve at least three different tax years, often include related entities, and routinely take years to resolve. The highest income taxpayers face the most significant chance of an examination, and they face the most highly trained and experienced IRS agents and teams utilizing our most sophisticated tools and techniques." https://www.irs.gov/about-irs/irs-audit-rates-significantly-increase-as-income-rises https://www.irs.gov/about-irs/irs-audit-rates-significantly-...
  - MegaButts 6y ago
    Thank you. This is much more useful!

WalterBright 6y ago

> I think they're rich because they're more opportunistic and, quite frankly, shittier human beings. That's a common perception, but is not based on reality. May I suggest: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1061637 https://www.jstor.org/stable/1061637

MegaButts 6y ago
This is the most condescending response I have ever received on HN. I do not find that link helpful and it's really insulting. You immediately jump from "he doesn't agree with me" to "you are ignorant and need to be educated as such until you agree with me." Most of my perception is based on billionaires I know in real life. It's anecdata but it's enough to persuade me. I choose not to talk to one after he became rich because he became such a horrible human being. The others roughly follow the same trend. All of them are rich or became rich by shitty means.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  If you'd written the post with that second paragraph, i.e. provided a basis for your opinion, I wouldn't have replied that way. As it was written, though, no basis was provided. The opinion was congruent with that of people who believe economics is zero-sum, which is what I inferred you meant from "shitty means". As for me, although I've personally met Steve Ballmer, Bill Gates, and Paul Allen, I hardly know them. I have read their biographies, and the biographies of many American billionaires, and would not agree that any of them came by their wealth through "shitty means". The term "shitty means" isn't exactly an economic term, and I'd be curious what you mean more specifically. I'll start by saying an ethical way to become a billionaire is by providing a product or service that people are happy to pay for. Gates, Ballmer, Allen, Jobs, Bezos, Musk, etc., all fit into that category. I'll close by apologizing to you.
  - MegaButts 6y ago
    I appreciate the apology and admit I overreacted. I owe you an apology as well. You're right - my first post did not have a lot of information, and my language was belligerent (in both of my replies). I've been having a bad day and you caught me at a bad time. That's my fault and I need to take a break from the internet. Have a good night.