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You do have a point, but I think from a risk perspective there is a difference. When Huawei was chosen for those fixed line projects it was providing relativel

You do have a point, but I think from a risk perspective there is a difference. When Huawei was chosen for those fixed line projects it was providing relatively ‘dumb’ pieces of kit (switches etc.), with controller software that could be looked at and ringfenced. The 5G stack has been implemented using much more virtualisation, and the vendors are providing much more general capability which makes it a lot harder to risk assess and probe for weaknesses etc.

martinald 6y ago
The UK has tens of thousands of Huawei VDSL2 DSLAMs installed, I imagine most countries have similar (Portugal seems to use Huawei for nearly all of their FTTH equipment). They are not dumb pieces of kit at all in terms of computing power. Regardless, even if it was, it is still a huge potential problem. Imagine Huawei had some backdoor code that looked for a certain pattern of data across any of the network interfaces and corrupted the firmware so it wouldn't load without being physically replaced. China then buys a load of ads and as users browse the web, they load the image with the secret string in, triggering it (one example). Within a couple of hours enough users have seen it that the vast majority of western infrastructure is down, and needs replaced (and I would assume in this case, China wouldn't be willing to sell more!). I think this sort of attack would likely take down most 5G anyway - as it's incredibly likely that the backhaul has some sort of Huawei fibre product in it somewhere along the line.
- jorblumesea 6y ago
  That is one form of attack, but that's "the nuclear option" of infrastructure. It's a concern, but many of the concerns around 5G are persistent nation state spying activities. China is far more concerned with data aggregating and mining than it is with nuking the West. China, in general, tends to avoid cataclysmic actions that upend the current order. Especially given that most of the Western world is China's largest trading partners and a fundamental part of their economy. China's strategic plan is spy and collect, not destroy. Traditional espionage stuff that every country does.
- threeseed 6y ago
  China et al don't care all that much about individual users. By compromising a large network provider they have the ability to access data from enterprise and government customers. Which as we saw when the US did it is very beneficial for trade negotiations etc.
  - martinald 6y ago
    Do they though? Nearly everything these days has TLS/SSL. What would they gain from intercepting a load of encrypted data? Even NSA said their snooping on network infrastrucure was becoming useless with the leaked info on their monitoring, which was years ago. I really don't see the value these days of being able to intercept traffic like this. You will obviously find bits and bobs that isn't encrypted but it's not like 20 years ago where you could get everything in a few days.
- gsich 6y ago
  Then 5G is down. So what? Considering the amount of procen backdoors in Cisco devices that seems miniscule.

martinald 6y ago

The UK has tens of thousands of Huawei VDSL2 DSLAMs installed, I imagine most countries have similar (Portugal seems to use Huawei for nearly all of their FTTH equipment). They are not dumb pieces of kit at all in terms of computing power. Regardless, even if it was, it is still a huge potential problem. Imagine Huawei had some backdoor code that looked for a certain pattern of data across any of the network interfaces and corrupted the firmware so it wouldn't load without being physically replaced. China then buys a load of ads and as users browse the web, they load the image with the secret string in, triggering it (one example). Within a couple of hours enough users have seen it that the vast majority of western infrastructure is down, and needs replaced (and I would assume in this case, China wouldn't be willing to sell more!). I think this sort of attack would likely take down most 5G anyway - as it's incredibly likely that the backhaul has some sort of Huawei fibre product in it somewhere along the line.

jorblumesea 6y ago
That is one form of attack, but that's "the nuclear option" of infrastructure. It's a concern, but many of the concerns around 5G are persistent nation state spying activities. China is far more concerned with data aggregating and mining than it is with nuking the West. China, in general, tends to avoid cataclysmic actions that upend the current order. Especially given that most of the Western world is China's largest trading partners and a fundamental part of their economy. China's strategic plan is spy and collect, not destroy. Traditional espionage stuff that every country does.
threeseed 6y ago
China et al don't care all that much about individual users. By compromising a large network provider they have the ability to access data from enterprise and government customers. Which as we saw when the US did it is very beneficial for trade negotiations etc.
- martinald 6y ago
  Do they though? Nearly everything these days has TLS/SSL. What would they gain from intercepting a load of encrypted data? Even NSA said their snooping on network infrastrucure was becoming useless with the leaked info on their monitoring, which was years ago. I really don't see the value these days of being able to intercept traffic like this. You will obviously find bits and bobs that isn't encrypted but it's not like 20 years ago where you could get everything in a few days.
gsich 6y ago
Then 5G is down. So what? Considering the amount of procen backdoors in Cisco devices that seems miniscule.