4 ms·

The issue isn't bandwidth; Netflix can stream HD video over a 5Mbps connection, and Stadia should require about the same bandwidth as video streaming because th

The issue isn't bandwidth; Netflix can stream HD video over a 5Mbps connection, and Stadia should require about the same bandwidth as video streaming because that's essentially what it's doing (and sending input signals back the other direction, but those should be negligible) What's much harder is latency. Who cares if your interactions with Netflix have a 500ms delay? For a video game, even 50ms is a problem. And you can't improve latency just by adding bigger pipes: there are unshakeable physical limits around how long it takes an electrical signal to go to and from a data center X miles away, and on top of that there's the rat's nest of routing that the signal has to go through along the way. The former can't be solved except by building out more datacenters so that more people are closer to them. The latter can be solved, at great effort, but I don't see ISPs having much motivation to do so. This is why individual experiences with Stadia are so hit-or-miss: it mostly comes down to luck, in terms of a) how physically close you are to a datacenter and b) how streamlined the network infrastructure around you happens to be. And I don't see a clear path for Google to significantly improve this over time.

nickthemagicman 6y ago
Like I said, I've never noticed any significant latency playing multiplayer with friends. It's seamless on a 150 meg connection. Starlink has a 40 ms latency and that literally goes to SPACE and back THEN ALSO goes through all of the network routing issues that you're talking about. So you may be overselling the latency problem. You may have other issues going on? I don't know why you're getting 500 millisecond delays. I'm certainly not getting that. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2020/11/01/starlink-internet-from-space-faster-than-95-of-usa/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsi...
- brundolf 6y ago
  What I'm saying is that you must be one of the lucky ones who has a low-latency connection (Whether or not you're playing multiplayer isn't really relevant, because those other people are talking to the datacenter, not your local client) > You may have other issues going on? I don't know why you're getting 500 millisecond delays. I'm certainly not getting that. I haven't personally tried Stadia, and 500ms wasn't intended as a representative example, it was just an extreme number for the sake of illustration. I have, though, read reports from lots of people who have "good" internet connections, saying Stadia is noticeably laggy (just look at the top comment on this very post). To get down to specifics, a latency of >16ms is a lagged frame at 60FPS (which is the standard expectation for the current gen of consoles, and has been the expectation on PC for many years). That time window also has to include actually processing and rendering the game state (you can throw hardware at this part, but only up to a point). So, that Starlink figure of 40ms will still give you a pretty unideal experience.
  - nickthemagicman 6y ago
    Starlink has a 40 millisecond latency and it goes to space and back and then it goes through all of the additional routing issues you're talking about. So I think you may be over estimating how much latency is inherent in the network. It may not be that I have a low latency connection...maybe you have an exceptionally high latency connection. Maybe your apartment building has issues with the wiring? You should really call your landlord. You're really missing out on how cool Stadia is. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsi https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsi...
    - issamehh 6y ago
      In some cases Starlink can actually have less latency than wired connections. It's not so clear cut. Also not every internet problem is solved by calling the landlord. In fact, mine has basically nothing to do with my internet in the first place.
      - brundolf 6y ago
        Right. I'd bet Starlink actually gets to skip a lot of the routing and repeating that landlines have to go through
        nickthemagicman 6y ago
        40-100ms is standard latency on any sort of internet enabled software even on the most average connection, and has been for a decade or more. I get 60ms latency on my phone hot spot. If you have 500ms ping your problem is not the internet, it's something local to your building or computer, I hate to be the one to break it to you!
        brundolf 6y ago
        Buddy we're way past the 500ms thing. I never said that I or anyone else has ever had a ping like that, it was just a hypothetical to illustrate how latency-tolerant most networked services are (to contrast with gaming).
jhbadger 6y ago
"For a video game, even 50ms is a problem" -- that rather depends on what kind of video game. For a first person shooter, yes. For a role playing or adventure game, not really.
- brundolf 6y ago
  Anything with real-time continuous motion is going to feel fairly uncomfortable with that kind of latency, which includes the great majority of AAA games, including most roleplaying and adventure games
nickthemagicman 6y ago
Numerous multibillion-dollar companies are creating game streaming services, think youre wrong...and I do too.
- thedrbrian 6y ago
  No they’re doing it to stop piracy and to have even more control over when people stop playing game XXI and buy the sequel game XXII electric bugaloo. Don’t think they’re being altruistic.
  - nickthemagicman 6y ago
    Even if you're extremely cynical take is accurate people won't use it if performance is unsatisfactory.

nickthemagicman 6y ago

Like I said, I've never noticed any significant latency playing multiplayer with friends. It's seamless on a 150 meg connection. Starlink has a 40 ms latency and that literally goes to SPACE and back THEN ALSO goes through all of the network routing issues that you're talking about. So you may be overselling the latency problem. You may have other issues going on? I don't know why you're getting 500 millisecond delays. I'm certainly not getting that. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2020/11/01/starlink-internet-from-space-faster-than-95-of-usa/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsi...

brundolf 6y ago
What I'm saying is that you must be one of the lucky ones who has a low-latency connection (Whether or not you're playing multiplayer isn't really relevant, because those other people are talking to the datacenter, not your local client) > You may have other issues going on? I don't know why you're getting 500 millisecond delays. I'm certainly not getting that. I haven't personally tried Stadia, and 500ms wasn't intended as a representative example, it was just an extreme number for the sake of illustration. I have, though, read reports from lots of people who have "good" internet connections, saying Stadia is noticeably laggy (just look at the top comment on this very post). To get down to specifics, a latency of >16ms is a lagged frame at 60FPS (which is the standard expectation for the current gen of consoles, and has been the expectation on PC for many years). That time window also has to include actually processing and rendering the game state (you can throw hardware at this part, but only up to a point). So, that Starlink figure of 40ms will still give you a pretty unideal experience.
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  Starlink has a 40 millisecond latency and it goes to space and back and then it goes through all of the additional routing issues you're talking about. So I think you may be over estimating how much latency is inherent in the network. It may not be that I have a low latency connection...maybe you have an exceptionally high latency connection. Maybe your apartment building has issues with the wiring? You should really call your landlord. You're really missing out on how cool Stadia is. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsi https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsi...
  - issamehh 6y ago
    In some cases Starlink can actually have less latency than wired connections. It's not so clear cut. Also not every internet problem is solved by calling the landlord. In fact, mine has basically nothing to do with my internet in the first place.
    - brundolf 6y ago
      Right. I'd bet Starlink actually gets to skip a lot of the routing and repeating that landlines have to go through
      - nickthemagicman 6y ago
        40-100ms is standard latency on any sort of internet enabled software even on the most average connection, and has been for a decade or more. I get 60ms latency on my phone hot spot. If you have 500ms ping your problem is not the internet, it's something local to your building or computer, I hate to be the one to break it to you!
        brundolf 6y ago
        Buddy we're way past the 500ms thing. I never said that I or anyone else has ever had a ping like that, it was just a hypothetical to illustrate how latency-tolerant most networked services are (to contrast with gaming).

jhbadger 6y ago

"For a video game, even 50ms is a problem" -- that rather depends on what kind of video game. For a first person shooter, yes. For a role playing or adventure game, not really.

brundolf 6y ago
Anything with real-time continuous motion is going to feel fairly uncomfortable with that kind of latency, which includes the great majority of AAA games, including most roleplaying and adventure games

nickthemagicman 6y ago

Numerous multibillion-dollar companies are creating game streaming services, think youre wrong...and I do too.

thedrbrian 6y ago
No they’re doing it to stop piracy and to have even more control over when people stop playing game XXI and buy the sequel game XXII electric bugaloo. Don’t think they’re being altruistic.
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  Even if you're extremely cynical take is accurate people won't use it if performance is unsatisfactory.