9 ms·

There are some fundamental limits to commitment-focused culture though. People have life obligations. Even if they wanted to work 60 hours a week, their sick mo

by mlthoughts2018 6y ago

There are some fundamental limits to commitment-focused culture though. People have life obligations. Even if they wanted to work 60 hours a week, their sick mom or their childcare or their kitchen renovation or an especially busy graduation season for nieces and nephews just requires their time, and their knowledge that their job is secure and they won’t be penalized on raises, rewards, etc., for simply having a life. Because of this, the commitment-focused path just doesn’t work, flat out. At best you can use it briefly to exploit unwitting young people who don’t know their worth and don’t have enough self-confidence to say no, and ride that into a pump and dump IPO situation, after which your company will promptly become process-focused and all the young people will quit and be replaced by mid-career people who don’t mind inheriting the mind-melting tech debt as long as you pay well and only expect 40 hours per week.

dboreham 6y ago
So much truth here.
908B64B197 6y ago
There's a trick to get more out of employees that's almost never discussed: Make their life easier. Childcare for a late meeting is an issue? Why not have childcare at the office? Pay enough and the kitchen improvements are the contractor's problem and not your employee's.
- gilbetron 6y ago
  Not having childcare is not the issue, wanting to spend times with your children is the issue. You can't outsource that.
  - ericbarrett 6y ago
    Saves the extra drive to daycare as well as the stress of not meeting the pickup time (most daycare charges very high after-hours rates to discourage this; I’ve seen $50/15 minutes).
  - jodrellblank 6y ago
    Well, now you can work from home and homeschool at the same time. Closing this support ticket as 'resolution found'.
- kortilla 6y ago
  This only works for people whose “life” only consists of chores. Will the company pay someone else to take my wife on a 2 week romantic get away?
  - sgt101 6y ago
    Mate - email me and I'll do it for free!
    - _underfl0w_ 6y ago
      This solution has potential to permanently remove the overhead introduced by "marriage".
  - hinkley 6y ago
    Don't give them any ideas. If they did, you'd have a lot more free time for them to exploit in the future.
  - 908B64B197 6y ago
    > Not having childcare is not the issue, wanting to spend times with your children is the issue. You can't outsource that. It's simple accounting really: If you want your employees to work 5 more hours a week, you need to free 5 hours from their schedules. Obviously, quality time spent with children or a spouse is the last thing employees will be willing to sacrifice. But running errands? Cleaning the house? Doctors appointments? Meals at work? Make these frictionless and you'll gain in productivity.
    - Jtsummers 6y ago
      You'll gain hours, but not necessarily productivity. Which is a common mistake in management thinking. An extra hour of work out of an assembly line can produce an extra hour's worth of product, there's a pretty clear and measurable extra output there. In software, and a lot of other design work, this correspondence is less precise. For Cody the Coding Machine you may get a real extra hour of output from him. From many others, you'll find they extend their breaks from 15 minutes to 20 minutes, lunch goes from 30 to 45 minutes, and the extra time is taken up by meetings or answering emails. The productivity doesn't come from extra time, it comes from alleviating stress and increasing the ability to focus. If my thoughts at 2pm are, "Wait, is it my day to pick up the kids? I've got a 3pm meeting, I've got to text the wife to let her know I can't get them today." I'm unfocused. Childcare, consequently, can relieve me of those thoughts. Same thing with bringing in food or having medical and fitness options available. They relieve some stress/unproductive time spent thinking and planning, which will hopefully improve productivity overall, but extra hours recovered from this are not necessarily more productive just by being available.
- rightbyte 6y ago
  Childcare at the office seems like a great way to put too many eggs in one basket. Changing child care centre is no small thing. The simple solution is no meetings after 15:00.
  - steveBK123 6y ago
    The sociopath parents in management solve this for everyone by putting in lots of 8am meetings instead ...
  - w0mbat 6y ago
    Google tried this. They set up this cadillac in-house childcare system, as you'd expect from Google, but it got out of hand as it scaled. When they switched to charging the parents more of the program cost, there was a huge backlash. Even with the higher price they couldn't meet demand, leading to waitlists and eventually a random lottery just to get a place. I bet Google management wish they'd never started the whole thing now.
    - hinkley 6y ago
      If there's one thing you can count on 'disruptors' to not understand, it's grandfather clauses. You raise your rate for all new 'customers' and your overhead rate stops looking like a line going toward infinity. Your reward for being at Google for 5 years should be that you get the rate plan from 2 years ago when your first kid was old enough for daycare. My reward for being a Netflix customer for 6 years should have been that I still got the old rate.
- allannienhuis 6y ago
  Hey, why not have a 'company store' where people can buy everything they need right at the office instead of having to spend precious minutes travelling to some questionable generic store. Think of all the time saved. While you're at it you could even extend credit to the employees for anything they might want to buy, and have their payments come directly out of their paychecks. How convenient! You could even issue company scrip instead of dealing with the costs of payment processors. There's lots of room for innovation here! /s :)
bluefirebrand 6y ago
> At best you can use it briefly to exploit unwitting young people who don’t know their worth and don’t have enough self-confidence to say no, and ride that into a pump and dump IPO situation That's basically the business plan in a lot of places.
- mlthoughts2018 6y ago
  Agreed, and we software engineers just keep letting them do it to us by agreeing that leetcode algorithm hazing should be the absolute measuring stick by which all software hiring is judged. If you feel like you barely squeaked your way in the door as someone was whipping you and yelling “dance monkey dance” then you’re helping them identify you as a gullible goober they can pay peanuts (relative to your value add) while overworking you, and get you to thank them for the sweet ping pong and happy hours. Until young candidates just say no to this shit, then it’s an abyss of open-office, grab-ass culture we have no one to blame for but ourselves.

dboreham 6y ago

So much truth here.

908B64B197 6y ago

There's a trick to get more out of employees that's almost never discussed: Make their life easier. Childcare for a late meeting is an issue? Why not have childcare at the office? Pay enough and the kitchen improvements are the contractor's problem and not your employee's.

gilbetron 6y ago
Not having childcare is not the issue, wanting to spend times with your children is the issue. You can't outsource that.
- ericbarrett 6y ago
  Saves the extra drive to daycare as well as the stress of not meeting the pickup time (most daycare charges very high after-hours rates to discourage this; I’ve seen $50/15 minutes).
- jodrellblank 6y ago
  Well, now you can work from home and homeschool at the same time. Closing this support ticket as 'resolution found'.
kortilla 6y ago
This only works for people whose “life” only consists of chores. Will the company pay someone else to take my wife on a 2 week romantic get away?
- sgt101 6y ago
  Mate - email me and I'll do it for free!
  - _underfl0w_ 6y ago
    This solution has potential to permanently remove the overhead introduced by "marriage".
- hinkley 6y ago
  Don't give them any ideas. If they did, you'd have a lot more free time for them to exploit in the future.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  > Not having childcare is not the issue, wanting to spend times with your children is the issue. You can't outsource that. It's simple accounting really: If you want your employees to work 5 more hours a week, you need to free 5 hours from their schedules. Obviously, quality time spent with children or a spouse is the last thing employees will be willing to sacrifice. But running errands? Cleaning the house? Doctors appointments? Meals at work? Make these frictionless and you'll gain in productivity.
  - Jtsummers 6y ago
    You'll gain hours, but not necessarily productivity. Which is a common mistake in management thinking. An extra hour of work out of an assembly line can produce an extra hour's worth of product, there's a pretty clear and measurable extra output there. In software, and a lot of other design work, this correspondence is less precise. For Cody the Coding Machine you may get a real extra hour of output from him. From many others, you'll find they extend their breaks from 15 minutes to 20 minutes, lunch goes from 30 to 45 minutes, and the extra time is taken up by meetings or answering emails. The productivity doesn't come from extra time, it comes from alleviating stress and increasing the ability to focus. If my thoughts at 2pm are, "Wait, is it my day to pick up the kids? I've got a 3pm meeting, I've got to text the wife to let her know I can't get them today." I'm unfocused. Childcare, consequently, can relieve me of those thoughts. Same thing with bringing in food or having medical and fitness options available. They relieve some stress/unproductive time spent thinking and planning, which will hopefully improve productivity overall, but extra hours recovered from this are not necessarily more productive just by being available.
rightbyte 6y ago
Childcare at the office seems like a great way to put too many eggs in one basket. Changing child care centre is no small thing. The simple solution is no meetings after 15:00.
- steveBK123 6y ago
  The sociopath parents in management solve this for everyone by putting in lots of 8am meetings instead ...
- w0mbat 6y ago
  Google tried this. They set up this cadillac in-house childcare system, as you'd expect from Google, but it got out of hand as it scaled. When they switched to charging the parents more of the program cost, there was a huge backlash. Even with the higher price they couldn't meet demand, leading to waitlists and eventually a random lottery just to get a place. I bet Google management wish they'd never started the whole thing now.
  - hinkley 6y ago
    If there's one thing you can count on 'disruptors' to not understand, it's grandfather clauses. You raise your rate for all new 'customers' and your overhead rate stops looking like a line going toward infinity. Your reward for being at Google for 5 years should be that you get the rate plan from 2 years ago when your first kid was old enough for daycare. My reward for being a Netflix customer for 6 years should have been that I still got the old rate.
allannienhuis 6y ago
Hey, why not have a 'company store' where people can buy everything they need right at the office instead of having to spend precious minutes travelling to some questionable generic store. Think of all the time saved. While you're at it you could even extend credit to the employees for anything they might want to buy, and have their payments come directly out of their paychecks. How convenient! You could even issue company scrip instead of dealing with the costs of payment processors. There's lots of room for innovation here! /s :)

bluefirebrand 6y ago

> At best you can use it briefly to exploit unwitting young people who don’t know their worth and don’t have enough self-confidence to say no, and ride that into a pump and dump IPO situation That's basically the business plan in a lot of places.

mlthoughts2018 6y ago
Agreed, and we software engineers just keep letting them do it to us by agreeing that leetcode algorithm hazing should be the absolute measuring stick by which all software hiring is judged. If you feel like you barely squeaked your way in the door as someone was whipping you and yelling “dance monkey dance” then you’re helping them identify you as a gullible goober they can pay peanuts (relative to your value add) while overworking you, and get you to thank them for the sweet ping pong and happy hours. Until young candidates just say no to this shit, then it’s an abyss of open-office, grab-ass culture we have no one to blame for but ourselves.