5 ms·

Definitely cool from a tech standpoint, but what is the value proposition here? I get that smaller = better, but why should I invest my engineers time in optimi

Definitely cool from a tech standpoint, but what is the value proposition here? I get that smaller = better, but why should I invest my engineers time in optimizing size using the results you output vs delivering new features or bug fixes to customers?

nicoburns 6y ago
People with small capacity phones (a lot of people) won't install your app, and may actually uninstall it if it's too big. That may not be priority #1, but it certainly deserves some consideration.
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  I mean, Facebook is a quarter of a gigabyte for God knows what reason. Many apps are similar. There’s a reason the base capacity is 64 GB: apps keep getting bigger. However, the cellular size limit is now 250 MB IIRC, so Facebook seems to stay just under that.
  - sond813 6y ago
    It's 200mb now before a prompt shows warning users of the size they are about to download.
  - nicoburns 6y ago
    Indeed! Our app (a shift management app) at work is ~20mb, and I felt like that was quite a big commitment to expect people to have on their phones!
  - eigenvector 6y ago
    The base capacity is 64 GB now, but lots of phones of 32 GB and even 16 are still usable (the original iPhone SE, for instance, was sold in a 16 GB version and runs the latest iOS). These older phones are way more common outside of the US and even just outside of the SFBA where not everyone buys a new $1000+ phone every 2 years.
- sond813 6y ago
  Exactly! Emerge aims to make it as easy as possible to fix app size issues, so you can prioritize it similar to other bug fixes. With our pull request comments alerting you to size increases right when they happen you can easily see why size increased and remedy it all before the change makes it to users.
aripickar 6y ago
There are limits based on the size of the binary that apple will allow on the app store. In addition, here's a really interesting story about how uber had to fight to downsize the app cause they realized that staying under the cellular data limit made people able to download the app when they were on the go: https://twitter.com/StanTwinB/status/1336890442768547845 https://twitter.com/StanTwinB/status/1336890442768547845
- neilk 6y ago
  I used to run an iOS testing-as-a-service thing. Few of our customers came close to the App Store limits. The ones that did were games and they are definitely not looking to optimize apps for the long term. We did have some unicorn customers but they weren't doing 2GB downloads, for the reasons you mention. So how many customers could this startup conceivably get? Unless you're a game with lots and lots of graphical assets, you have to be the kind of company with more ability to employ developers than to coordinate them (i.e. a unicorn). It's also a moving target as limits are continually revised upwards. I assume they have done some diligence about their TAM, but I don't get understand the plan just yet.
- Matheus28 6y ago
  The real point I got from this is not to use brand new and not battle tested technology in production. Sure, everyone loves a rewrite, but perhaps Swift wasn't ready for it.
enos_feedler 6y ago
Not sure whether they will tackle Android as well, but I know there are strict limits on APK size to be eligible for Play Store features like Instant Apps.
- sond813 6y ago
  Android support is definitely on our roadmap!
joiguru 6y ago
Performance is the currency which you trade for ease of development, new features, etc. Ignoring performance comes at a cost to you (server side resources) and your users (device resources). This is why generation after generation devices get more powerful and slower (from user point of view). It is up to you to find out which point in the performance vs new feature/bugfix tradeoff gives you maximum value.
webmobdev 6y ago
As a user, I appreciate smaller app size as I equate it with better developer skills and, it downloads faster. (I had even made a feedback request to Apple that they show the size of apps in App Store Updates as "it helps me estimate how much time an app update may take. - glad they did so).

nicoburns 6y ago

People with small capacity phones (a lot of people) won't install your app, and may actually uninstall it if it's too big. That may not be priority #1, but it certainly deserves some consideration.

colejohnson66 6y ago
I mean, Facebook is a quarter of a gigabyte for God knows what reason. Many apps are similar. There’s a reason the base capacity is 64 GB: apps keep getting bigger. However, the cellular size limit is now 250 MB IIRC, so Facebook seems to stay just under that.
- sond813 6y ago
  It's 200mb now before a prompt shows warning users of the size they are about to download.
- nicoburns 6y ago
  Indeed! Our app (a shift management app) at work is ~20mb, and I felt like that was quite a big commitment to expect people to have on their phones!
- eigenvector 6y ago
  The base capacity is 64 GB now, but lots of phones of 32 GB and even 16 are still usable (the original iPhone SE, for instance, was sold in a 16 GB version and runs the latest iOS). These older phones are way more common outside of the US and even just outside of the SFBA where not everyone buys a new $1000+ phone every 2 years.
sond813 6y ago
Exactly! Emerge aims to make it as easy as possible to fix app size issues, so you can prioritize it similar to other bug fixes. With our pull request comments alerting you to size increases right when they happen you can easily see why size increased and remedy it all before the change makes it to users.

aripickar 6y ago

There are limits based on the size of the binary that apple will allow on the app store. In addition, here's a really interesting story about how uber had to fight to downsize the app cause they realized that staying under the cellular data limit made people able to download the app when they were on the go: https://twitter.com/StanTwinB/status/1336890442768547845 https://twitter.com/StanTwinB/status/1336890442768547845

neilk 6y ago
I used to run an iOS testing-as-a-service thing. Few of our customers came close to the App Store limits. The ones that did were games and they are definitely not looking to optimize apps for the long term. We did have some unicorn customers but they weren't doing 2GB downloads, for the reasons you mention. So how many customers could this startup conceivably get? Unless you're a game with lots and lots of graphical assets, you have to be the kind of company with more ability to employ developers than to coordinate them (i.e. a unicorn). It's also a moving target as limits are continually revised upwards. I assume they have done some diligence about their TAM, but I don't get understand the plan just yet.
Matheus28 6y ago
The real point I got from this is not to use brand new and not battle tested technology in production. Sure, everyone loves a rewrite, but perhaps Swift wasn't ready for it.

enos_feedler 6y ago

Not sure whether they will tackle Android as well, but I know there are strict limits on APK size to be eligible for Play Store features like Instant Apps.

sond813 6y ago
Android support is definitely on our roadmap!

joiguru 6y ago

Performance is the currency which you trade for ease of development, new features, etc. Ignoring performance comes at a cost to you (server side resources) and your users (device resources). This is why generation after generation devices get more powerful and slower (from user point of view). It is up to you to find out which point in the performance vs new feature/bugfix tradeoff gives you maximum value.

webmobdev 6y ago

As a user, I appreciate smaller app size as I equate it with better developer skills and, it downloads faster. (I had even made a feedback request to Apple that they show the size of apps in App Store Updates as "it helps me estimate how much time an app update may take. - glad they did so).