8 ms·

As a counterpoint, while I consider the shows to be oscillating between enjoyable and watchable (though admittedly only barely if we are talking about season 3)

by brmgb 6y ago

As a counterpoint, while I consider the shows to be oscillating between enjoyable and watchable (though admittedly only barely if we are talking about season 3), I found the books to be completely unreadable (well the first one at least - I'm not a masochist. I stoped there). Abraham and Franck's prose is at best unremarkable when it's not plain bad and they have a bad habit of relying on characters acting, well, out of character and contrary to their interest when the story is stuck (which actually happens quite often and is something the show can't entierely escape sadly).

goatlover 6y ago
Season 3 was the absolute pinnacle of the show and some of the best scifi ever on tv. It completely blew my mind, and I’ve watched my share of Star Trek, Stargate, Babylon 5, Farscape, BSG, etc over the years. It completely pays off for the buildup of seasons 1 and 2.
- e40 6y ago
  I agree, S03 was awesome, but I'm finding I like S05 even more. I'm really sorry to see Bezos cancel it after next season. I was hoping for many more.
  - imbnwa 6y ago
    Canceled it, then resigned as CEO, he knew what he was doing
  - wmf 6y ago
    Book 6/season 6 is the end of the "original" Expanse; book 7 takes place decades later. If they want to make books 7-9 into Expanse: TNG they might want to recast the actors. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing the novellas made into pseudo-standalone movies.
    - sveme 6y ago
      I don't see an issue with using the same actors, people seem to live much longer lives anyway and some make-up will make them look older. I really want to watch the last three books as a big budget series. Jeff, if you're reading this, you should have the time and money now to make it happen. Please?
      - wmf 6y ago
        Blue Origin launching a streaming service would be so 2021.
        angry-tempest 6y ago
        Expanse but actually shot in space
    - brummm 6y ago
      Some of the novellas were actually part of the show.
    - WorldMaker 6y ago
      Rumor is that is exactly what they are planning. A clean "break" at the show level and doing it as two "separate" shows would help simplify marketing and budgeting and contracts, especially with a recast.
      - Arrath 6y ago
        This makes perfect sense to me. A time-skip of several decades would be tough to pull off.
- harshreality 6y ago
  Expanse enjoys the benefit of tighter plotting, modern special effects, better acting, and an almost total focus on the season's narrative arc as opposed to individual episodic stories (which have only minor world- and character-building). Still, I think B5, despite its many flaws, will always be the definitive TV space opera in terms of narrative arcs. Expanse has a tendency to get preachy, like BSG did, about politics. I found B5 a lot purer and more universal, but maybe that's just my selective memory/recollection. I wish someone would remake B5 eventually, true to the original but dropping all the unnecessary material (and useless arcs), pulling in the TV movie plots, and addressing the telepath war. Those other shows? I liked some individual episodes, but I think they're all a step down.
  - jack_h 6y ago
    > I wish someone would remake B5 eventually, true to the original but dropping all the unnecessary material (and useless arcs), pulling in the TV movie plots, and addressing the telepath war. I'm actually curious as to what you think was unnecessary material. There was definitely some in S1, but the vast, vast majority of stuff spanning the first four seasons was important I'd say. Obviously the fifth season was different, but that wasn't really the fault of the show creator.
    - harshreality 6y ago
      It was plotted and written in the era where a plot of the week had to carry an entire episode. Main characters can no longer be allowed to get entangled in a non-critical event for a full episode just to reveal something important about them for later. Writers have to be more clever than that. There's no room for "this time on B5, a rebellion/alien/telepath problem/encounter." With 22-episode seasons like the original, I bet a good writing team could do something like this: Season 1: building up the world, revealing the Shadows at the end Season 2: Shadow war Season 3: proxy wars Season 4: Loose ends & Consequences, including Thirdspace and the telepath war. If there's enough material, maybe even move the telepath war to a 5th season. I always wanted to see what happened to the Vorlons' favorite telepath. There should still be room, in seasons 1 and 2 especially, for some cute but essentially irrelevant subplots like Green vs Purple.
- tarsinge 6y ago
  I agree, and I’m a bit disappointed by season 4 and 5. While they are enjoyable in their style, they are too much character focused compared to the perspective opened previously. Didn’t read the books, hope the story goes back to discovery and exploration after.
  - zwaps 6y ago
    This does reflect the books. If they manage to continue, it'll... change in tone. Personally, I feel the material for season 4 and 5 was indeed among the weakest in the books. I hope that you will continue to watch, so we get to see how they do the rest.
Arrath 6y ago
I must admit to having a completely opposite view to yours. I started with the show, and then read the books after having finished season 3. I absolutely devoured them at about 1 book a week until I caught up.

by brmgb 6y ago

goatlover 6y ago

Season 3 was the absolute pinnacle of the show and some of the best scifi ever on tv. It completely blew my mind, and I’ve watched my share of Star Trek, Stargate, Babylon 5, Farscape, BSG, etc over the years. It completely pays off for the buildup of seasons 1 and 2.

e40 6y ago
I agree, S03 was awesome, but I'm finding I like S05 even more. I'm really sorry to see Bezos cancel it after next season. I was hoping for many more.
- imbnwa 6y ago
  Canceled it, then resigned as CEO, he knew what he was doing
- wmf 6y ago
  Book 6/season 6 is the end of the "original" Expanse; book 7 takes place decades later. If they want to make books 7-9 into Expanse: TNG they might want to recast the actors. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing the novellas made into pseudo-standalone movies.
  - sveme 6y ago
    I don't see an issue with using the same actors, people seem to live much longer lives anyway and some make-up will make them look older. I really want to watch the last three books as a big budget series. Jeff, if you're reading this, you should have the time and money now to make it happen. Please?
    - wmf 6y ago
      Blue Origin launching a streaming service would be so 2021.
      - angry-tempest 6y ago
        Expanse but actually shot in space
  - brummm 6y ago
    Some of the novellas were actually part of the show.
  - WorldMaker 6y ago
    Rumor is that is exactly what they are planning. A clean "break" at the show level and doing it as two "separate" shows would help simplify marketing and budgeting and contracts, especially with a recast.
    - Arrath 6y ago
      This makes perfect sense to me. A time-skip of several decades would be tough to pull off.
harshreality 6y ago
Expanse enjoys the benefit of tighter plotting, modern special effects, better acting, and an almost total focus on the season's narrative arc as opposed to individual episodic stories (which have only minor world- and character-building). Still, I think B5, despite its many flaws, will always be the definitive TV space opera in terms of narrative arcs. Expanse has a tendency to get preachy, like BSG did, about politics. I found B5 a lot purer and more universal, but maybe that's just my selective memory/recollection. I wish someone would remake B5 eventually, true to the original but dropping all the unnecessary material (and useless arcs), pulling in the TV movie plots, and addressing the telepath war. Those other shows? I liked some individual episodes, but I think they're all a step down.
- jack_h 6y ago
  > I wish someone would remake B5 eventually, true to the original but dropping all the unnecessary material (and useless arcs), pulling in the TV movie plots, and addressing the telepath war. I'm actually curious as to what you think was unnecessary material. There was definitely some in S1, but the vast, vast majority of stuff spanning the first four seasons was important I'd say. Obviously the fifth season was different, but that wasn't really the fault of the show creator.
  - harshreality 6y ago
    It was plotted and written in the era where a plot of the week had to carry an entire episode. Main characters can no longer be allowed to get entangled in a non-critical event for a full episode just to reveal something important about them for later. Writers have to be more clever than that. There's no room for "this time on B5, a rebellion/alien/telepath problem/encounter." With 22-episode seasons like the original, I bet a good writing team could do something like this: Season 1: building up the world, revealing the Shadows at the end Season 2: Shadow war Season 3: proxy wars Season 4: Loose ends & Consequences, including Thirdspace and the telepath war. If there's enough material, maybe even move the telepath war to a 5th season. I always wanted to see what happened to the Vorlons' favorite telepath. There should still be room, in seasons 1 and 2 especially, for some cute but essentially irrelevant subplots like Green vs Purple.
tarsinge 6y ago
I agree, and I’m a bit disappointed by season 4 and 5. While they are enjoyable in their style, they are too much character focused compared to the perspective opened previously. Didn’t read the books, hope the story goes back to discovery and exploration after.
- zwaps 6y ago
  This does reflect the books. If they manage to continue, it'll... change in tone. Personally, I feel the material for season 4 and 5 was indeed among the weakest in the books. I hope that you will continue to watch, so we get to see how they do the rest.

Arrath 6y ago

I must admit to having a completely opposite view to yours. I started with the show, and then read the books after having finished season 3. I absolutely devoured them at about 1 book a week until I caught up.