6 ms·

Justice Department Drops Yale University Admissions Lawsuit

40 points by throwawaysea 6y ago

simplemen 6y ago
This is sad. I knew several Asian Indians who claimed that they were mixed race to get into college. Because if they didn't, they won't get in while they all had 4.0 gpas. They just didn't completely kill their social life, they didn't join multiple clubs or volunteered every weekend. It is disheartening to see young kids in one ethnic group needing to work so much harder while other ethnic groups have lower standards of admission.
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  Racism against Asian Americans is real.
  - nobodyandproud 6y ago
    Yes. Painfully enough, Democrats are largely unsympathetic or deliberately unaware. Every racial equality discourse and minority suppression is about “black and latino”. Asians are apparently non-existent. Republicans know this very well.
    - nirav72 6y ago
      Republicans aren't doing much to attract Asian-american voters either. Although it's possible that since AAs voters aren't a significant percentage of the electorate to make a difference.
      - nobodyandproud 6y ago
        Yet more than the Democrats. Asian Americans by and large do not fall into the same bucket as the “catch-all” immigrant bucket that Democrats like to pretend exist.
  - teachrdan 6y ago
    As an Asian American, I recognize that racism against us is real, and that at the same time, the impact is far, far smaller than it is for people who are Black or Latinx. There is no modern history of Asian Americans getting redlined, whereas Wells Fargo sold subprime mortgages to Black homeowners in Baltimore while internally saying they were selling "garbage loans" to "mud people." Asian Americans are far less likely to be racially profiled by the police, while African Americans are far more likely to be wrongfully convicted of rape, for example. Honestly, there is a bit of a meme on HN where affirmative action always hurts Asian Americans. It's been documented that elite schools use sports to discriminate in favor of wealthy white students. (Think about what demographic goes to schools with top-rated lacrosse or crew or horseback riding teams.) It's time for Asian Americans to be in solidarity with other people of color who suffer more from discrimination. Fortunately, 80% of Asian Americans support affirmative action. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-reaches-settlement-wells-fargo-resulting-more-175-million-relief https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-reaches-se... https://cls.soceco.uci.edu/news/data-shows-african-americans-are-more-likely-be-wrongfully-convicted https://cls.soceco.uci.edu/news/data-shows-african-americans... https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-08-27/affirmative-action-yale-harvard-admissions-legacies https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-08-27/affirmative... https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/70-asian-americans-support-affirmative-action-here-s-why-misconceptions-n1247806 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/70-asian-american...
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - apostacy 6y ago
      Nearly everything said about asian Americans can be said of jewish Americans. Now substitute what you just said about asians for jews. Still ok with it? Jews are disproportionately over-represented in elite universities relative to the population. And on average we experience more well being that white people, along the same metrics you cited. It is ludicrous that you could lump together a child of Vietnamese refugees in with with someone who's parents are doctors who immigrated from The Philippines. It is almost as if we are more a product of our circumstances than our ethnicity. No, hard working asian and jewish kids should be punished for bad things that Wells Fargo did a quarter century ago.
sxp 6y ago
It's important to note that the lawsuit being dropped doesn't imply that Yale doesn't discriminate. The evidence from the lawsuit is enlightening. See page 23 of https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1326306/download https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1326306/downl... for admission rates by race.
- slowmovintarget 6y ago
  It implies approval from the current administration for that kind of discrimination.
jarym 6y ago
Paywalled so can’t read the article but am familiar with this. Part of me thinks universities are in for a karmic boomerang in the COVID age and as more and more educational material is available for free/cheap. It used to be the case that a college education was essential if you wanted to make it in the modern world. That is less and less true and I think universities will go the way of newspapers - they’ll serve a niche well (those who are academically minded) and be irrelevant to the rest.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
underseacables 6y ago
A new administration, with new priorities.
listless 6y ago
It’s SO sad that this has to be political. I wish we could address arguments on their merits. That doesn’t seem like something that will be improving in the foreseeable future.
ecshafer 6y ago
The university discrimination in the US is horrendous. Personally I feel like we should go to a system like China for admissions. Take an exam and rank your choices. Then depending on grades on the exam, you are admitted to the school of your choice, the best grades get their first picks, until people don't get into that, then they get into their second pick, etc. This would remove all of the classist policies of legacy admissions, donor admission, what sports you played, "interviews", etc. If Harvard is 95% Asian or Indian, then so be it. People should be judged by their abilities and the content of their character, not the color of their skin or who their parents were. Just because the discrimination is happening to a white kid from Ohio or asian, doesn't mean its okay.
- itsdrewmiller 6y ago
  How do you test for the content of their character?
  - urmish 6y ago
    how do they do it right now?
  - dinero_rojo 6y ago
    Why do you need to test the content of their character...? Is that really necessary for an academic institution? And wasn’t that originally done by the Ivy League (I think Harvard actually started it) to discriminate against Jews who were being accepted at a greater rate than “ideal” Protestants?
- tssva 6y ago
  "People should be judged by their abilities" You state that but then exclude certain abilities from consideration which makes me think what you mean is that people should be judged based upon the abilities I have deemed important.
benmmurphy 6y ago
The Students for Fair Admissions filed a motion to intervene (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/students-for-fair-admissions-files-motion-to-intervene-as-plaintiff-intervenor-in-united-states-v-yale-university-301160950.html https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/students-for-fair-a...) so they could continue the case in this scenario but they were denied by the judge (https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ctd.141516/gov.uscourts.ctd.141516.48.0.pdf https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ctd.141516/...).

40 points by throwawaysea 6y ago

This is sad. I knew several Asian Indians who claimed that they were mixed race to get into college. Because if they didn't, they won't get in while they all had 4.0 gpas. They just didn't completely kill their social life, they didn't join multiple clubs or volunteered every weekend. It is disheartening to see young kids in one ethnic group needing to work so much harder while other ethnic groups have lower standards of admission.

mensetmanusman 6y ago
Racism against Asian Americans is real.
- nobodyandproud 6y ago
  Yes. Painfully enough, Democrats are largely unsympathetic or deliberately unaware. Every racial equality discourse and minority suppression is about “black and latino”. Asians are apparently non-existent. Republicans know this very well.
  - nirav72 6y ago
    Republicans aren't doing much to attract Asian-american voters either. Although it's possible that since AAs voters aren't a significant percentage of the electorate to make a difference.
    - nobodyandproud 6y ago
      Yet more than the Democrats. Asian Americans by and large do not fall into the same bucket as the “catch-all” immigrant bucket that Democrats like to pretend exist.
- teachrdan 6y ago
  As an Asian American, I recognize that racism against us is real, and that at the same time, the impact is far, far smaller than it is for people who are Black or Latinx. There is no modern history of Asian Americans getting redlined, whereas Wells Fargo sold subprime mortgages to Black homeowners in Baltimore while internally saying they were selling "garbage loans" to "mud people." Asian Americans are far less likely to be racially profiled by the police, while African Americans are far more likely to be wrongfully convicted of rape, for example. Honestly, there is a bit of a meme on HN where affirmative action always hurts Asian Americans. It's been documented that elite schools use sports to discriminate in favor of wealthy white students. (Think about what demographic goes to schools with top-rated lacrosse or crew or horseback riding teams.) It's time for Asian Americans to be in solidarity with other people of color who suffer more from discrimination. Fortunately, 80% of Asian Americans support affirmative action. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-reaches-settlement-wells-fargo-resulting-more-175-million-relief https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-reaches-se... https://cls.soceco.uci.edu/news/data-shows-african-americans-are-more-likely-be-wrongfully-convicted https://cls.soceco.uci.edu/news/data-shows-african-americans... https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-08-27/affirmative-action-yale-harvard-admissions-legacies https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-08-27/affirmative... https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/70-asian-americans-support-affirmative-action-here-s-why-misconceptions-n1247806 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/70-asian-american...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - apostacy 6y ago
    Nearly everything said about asian Americans can be said of jewish Americans. Now substitute what you just said about asians for jews. Still ok with it? Jews are disproportionately over-represented in elite universities relative to the population. And on average we experience more well being that white people, along the same metrics you cited. It is ludicrous that you could lump together a child of Vietnamese refugees in with with someone who's parents are doctors who immigrated from The Philippines. It is almost as if we are more a product of our circumstances than our ethnicity. No, hard working asian and jewish kids should be punished for bad things that Wells Fargo did a quarter century ago.

sxp 6y ago

It's important to note that the lawsuit being dropped doesn't imply that Yale doesn't discriminate. The evidence from the lawsuit is enlightening. See page 23 of https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1326306/download https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1326306/downl... for admission rates by race.

slowmovintarget 6y ago
It implies approval from the current administration for that kind of discrimination.

jarym 6y ago

Paywalled so can’t read the article but am familiar with this. Part of me thinks universities are in for a karmic boomerang in the COVID age and as more and more educational material is available for free/cheap. It used to be the case that a college education was essential if you wanted to make it in the modern world. That is less and less true and I think universities will go the way of newspapers - they’ll serve a niche well (those who are academically minded) and be irrelevant to the rest.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

underseacables 6y ago

A new administration, with new priorities.

listless 6y ago

It’s SO sad that this has to be political. I wish we could address arguments on their merits. That doesn’t seem like something that will be improving in the foreseeable future.

ecshafer 6y ago

The university discrimination in the US is horrendous. Personally I feel like we should go to a system like China for admissions. Take an exam and rank your choices. Then depending on grades on the exam, you are admitted to the school of your choice, the best grades get their first picks, until people don't get into that, then they get into their second pick, etc. This would remove all of the classist policies of legacy admissions, donor admission, what sports you played, "interviews", etc. If Harvard is 95% Asian or Indian, then so be it. People should be judged by their abilities and the content of their character, not the color of their skin or who their parents were. Just because the discrimination is happening to a white kid from Ohio or asian, doesn't mean its okay.

itsdrewmiller 6y ago
How do you test for the content of their character?
- urmish 6y ago
  how do they do it right now?
- dinero_rojo 6y ago
  Why do you need to test the content of their character...? Is that really necessary for an academic institution? And wasn’t that originally done by the Ivy League (I think Harvard actually started it) to discriminate against Jews who were being accepted at a greater rate than “ideal” Protestants?
tssva 6y ago
"People should be judged by their abilities" You state that but then exclude certain abilities from consideration which makes me think what you mean is that people should be judged based upon the abilities I have deemed important.

benmmurphy 6y ago

The Students for Fair Admissions filed a motion to intervene (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/students-for-fair-admissions-files-motion-to-intervene-as-plaintiff-intervenor-in-united-states-v-yale-university-301160950.html https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/students-for-fair-a...) so they could continue the case in this scenario but they were denied by the judge (https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ctd.141516/gov.uscourts.ctd.141516.48.0.pdf https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ctd.141516/...).