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>I demured on the fact that British society could put a psycho executive in restraint while my country, a supposed enlightened democracy (the US), can not. To

>I demured on the fact that British society could put a psycho executive in restraint while my country, a supposed enlightened democracy (the US), can not. To be clear, this is a partisan political opinion that borders on authoritarianism. You may not like Trump, but he was democratically elected. So prey tell, what would "restraining" a democratically elected 'executive' look like? Remember, any rule you define has to be measured against past presidents and apply to future presidents.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
It would look like the 25th Amendment being exercised.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  It’s generally agreed upon by constitutional scholars that the 25th amendment wasn’t designed for that, and that trying to use it in that way creates some nightmare scenarios. Specifically it gives the president the ability to challenge their removal and have the senate adjudicate, which would be decidedly not great. If Trump had been intubated with Covid or suffered a stroke, then the 25th amendment would have been an appropriate choice. Otherwise the proper avenue to remove a misbehaving president is impeachment.
  - 0xffff2 6y ago
    >... and have the senate adjudicate, which would be decidedly not great. Why not? Sounds like it's roughly tantamount to giving the cabinet the power to impeach the President. Given the natural restraint on that power in that the cabinet is appointed by the President, I'm not sure I see any problem there.
    - macspoofing 6y ago
      >Sounds like it's roughly tantamount to giving the cabinet the power to impeach the President Congress also the ability to impeach the President. Congress couldn't get the votes to do remove the President from office ... so your partisan solution is for the cabinet to find a reason to remove the President? Why? Because you don't like how your fellow citizens voted? How about this: Vote him out in the next election? Oh that actually happened! And Democracy survived! For all the talk about Trump, the opposition is perfectly willing to destroy every single norm and democratic institution just to get him.
      - 0xffff2 6y ago
        Woha, what? This wasn't "my solution". I was just commenting because I didn't understand the particular danger, which the OP clarified.
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      My wording was unclear. Having the Senate check on the 25th amendment is a good thing; the cabinet should not have the power to depose the president just because. That’s clearly a very dangerous power to just leave laying around like that. What’s bad is having a very much awake and ambulatory Trump arguing in front of the Senate that he should be back in power. That’s a political nightmare, and far worse than Congress using its powers to expel the president on their own initiative. It’s much better for our body politic for Congress to impeach and save the 25th amendment for less politically ambiguous situations.
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    > It’s generally agreed upon by constitutional scholars that the 25th amendment wasn’t designed for that... Well, we sure had a bunch of "constitutional scholars" saying that the 25th should be invoked for exactly that. If you want to claim that those people were random people pushing their viewpoint rather than actual scholars, I could accept that. But if you're saying there's a general consensus among the experts, I wouldn't mind seeing a credible source to that effect.
- macspoofing 6y ago
  What are you talking about? Remove Trump for what reason? Because you don't like him and so you're willing to discard the votes of half the country just get him out? Insanity.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago

It would look like the 25th Amendment being exercised.

ashtonkem 6y ago
It’s generally agreed upon by constitutional scholars that the 25th amendment wasn’t designed for that, and that trying to use it in that way creates some nightmare scenarios. Specifically it gives the president the ability to challenge their removal and have the senate adjudicate, which would be decidedly not great. If Trump had been intubated with Covid or suffered a stroke, then the 25th amendment would have been an appropriate choice. Otherwise the proper avenue to remove a misbehaving president is impeachment.
- 0xffff2 6y ago
  >... and have the senate adjudicate, which would be decidedly not great. Why not? Sounds like it's roughly tantamount to giving the cabinet the power to impeach the President. Given the natural restraint on that power in that the cabinet is appointed by the President, I'm not sure I see any problem there.
  - macspoofing 6y ago
    >Sounds like it's roughly tantamount to giving the cabinet the power to impeach the President Congress also the ability to impeach the President. Congress couldn't get the votes to do remove the President from office ... so your partisan solution is for the cabinet to find a reason to remove the President? Why? Because you don't like how your fellow citizens voted? How about this: Vote him out in the next election? Oh that actually happened! And Democracy survived! For all the talk about Trump, the opposition is perfectly willing to destroy every single norm and democratic institution just to get him.
    - 0xffff2 6y ago
      Woha, what? This wasn't "my solution". I was just commenting because I didn't understand the particular danger, which the OP clarified.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    My wording was unclear. Having the Senate check on the 25th amendment is a good thing; the cabinet should not have the power to depose the president just because. That’s clearly a very dangerous power to just leave laying around like that. What’s bad is having a very much awake and ambulatory Trump arguing in front of the Senate that he should be back in power. That’s a political nightmare, and far worse than Congress using its powers to expel the president on their own initiative. It’s much better for our body politic for Congress to impeach and save the 25th amendment for less politically ambiguous situations.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  > It’s generally agreed upon by constitutional scholars that the 25th amendment wasn’t designed for that... Well, we sure had a bunch of "constitutional scholars" saying that the 25th should be invoked for exactly that. If you want to claim that those people were random people pushing their viewpoint rather than actual scholars, I could accept that. But if you're saying there's a general consensus among the experts, I wouldn't mind seeing a credible source to that effect.
macspoofing 6y ago
What are you talking about? Remove Trump for what reason? Because you don't like him and so you're willing to discard the votes of half the country just get him out? Insanity.