4 ms·

so I expand: but of course, this is not an answer; it's an explanation in the style of the surreal way in which I have chosen to make sense of the larger world

so I expand: but of course, this is not an answer; it's an explanation in the style of the surreal way in which I have chosen to make sense of the larger world around me. however, who am I to chose how to make sense of the world? who am I to say that mytholgy-engineering has anything to do with the reason for the creation lots and lots of romances set in the british pre-victorian era? in order to be taken seriously I must provide sources, backing, it is not enough to explain my thoughts cogently. I must show other ideas that support what I say. I must acquire a reputation and then, only then, I can say whatever I want. But how does one gather a reputation such that whatever I say will be read mindfully and not just dismissed right out when I start to make reasoning leaps all around? the most direct way is to simply repeat what other people with a reputation have said; to preach to the choir.

seneca 6y ago
HN, for all of its claims of intellectualism, is pretty unforgiving to any thoughts that don't fit one of a couple of echo chamber themes. I hang around because I think it's important for people (including me) to hear other ideas, but you should expect to be downvoted.
- silicon2401 6y ago
  I've only been coming to this site for maybe 5 years now (not under this account in case people do the lame reddit thing of checking your account history at the drop of a hat), but I feel like even in that time things have become noticeably more echo-y here.
  - minikites 6y ago
    Hacker News is just Reddit plus a thesaurus.
- nomdep 6y ago
  Some americans went insane after Trump won in 2016 and the media fed that insanity for harvesting clicks. As a reaction, the "with me or against me" mantra was increasingly strong for the last four and a half years. I hope people calm down again now that that its over.
- Kaibeezy 6y ago
  It takes long, hard work to accumulate the knowledge and experience to be able to consistently say things that matter. It’s impossible to fake, and an astute crowd will always spot it. The Luke-in-Yoda’s-hut scene pops to mind.
  - perl4ever 6y ago
    I wonder how many people in this thread had heard of Georgette Heyer but not "The Luke-in-Yoda’s-hut scene". Even after looking up the script, I have no idea what you are saying.
    - Kaibeezy 6y ago
      The commenter above asked: "But how does one gather a reputation such that whatever I say will be read mindfully and not just dismissed right out when I start to make reasoning leaps all around? the most direct way is to simply repeat what other people with a reputation have said; to preach to the choir." Yoda challenged Luke by telling him he was too old to begin the training, and that a Jedi "craves not" things like adventure and excitement. People have varying degrees of awareness about how much work it is and how long it takes to gain meaningful knowledge and experience. They are impatient, they want shortcuts, they think "likes" are important, they give up. Luke says: "you want the impossible", but of course it's not impossible, just profoundly abstruse.
- Chris2048 6y ago
  Which thoughts? Are you talking about the liberal echo-chamber downvote squad, the americana/patriot downvote squad, or something else?
- naringas 6y ago
  > is pretty unforgiving to any thoughts that don't fit one of a couple of echo chamber themes. sounds better in ther converse: "it's pretty forgiving of thoughts that do go along the predilect tropes"
selimthegrim 6y ago
Man, you really hated Bridgerton huh
dudul 6y ago
Without providing sources or backing, it would be useful to be a bit more explicit. You could mention the myths that are being re-inforced, that would be interesting.
lucozade 6y ago
You alleged that Georgian romances are part of a conspiracy to control the future. That's a surprising allegation that you made no attempt to justify nor explain, cogent or otherwise. Under those circumstances, it's perfectly coherent for strangers to dismiss the allegation if it doesn't conform to their preconceived view. It is also perfectly coherent for strangers to agree with it if it does. Now, if you wish for strangers to come to agree with your world view then you'll have to make some effort to convince them. Whether or not you can be arsed to do that is, of course, up to you.
jcranmer 6y ago
> in order to be taken seriously I must provide sources, backing, it is not enough to explain my thoughts cogently. I must show other ideas that support what I say. I must acquire a reputation and then, only then, I can say whatever I want. No one here is actually asking for your sources, so far as I can see. The people who are taking umbrage at your comment are most likely (like me) those who do not see your explanation as cogent but instead an assertion that doesn't even fully explain what is asserting. You're promoting a conspiracy theory--a shadowy "They" who are conspiring to do something--without explaining what the conspiracy actually is. What are the myths being enforced? Why are "They" doing this? Who even is "They"? > But how does one gather a reputation such that whatever I say will be read mindfully and not just dismissed right out when I start to make reasoning leaps all around? the most direct way is to simply repeat what other people with a reputation have said; to preach to the choir. In my experience on HN, that reputation is gathered mostly by being seen to speak authoritatively on topics. The highest upvote comments I have gathered are generally when I can put together thorough, concise explanations quickly. It doesn't have to agree with the current zeitgeist, but you do generally want to provide stronger argumentation for your viewpoints in that situation.
- kiliantics 6y ago
  There doesn't need to be a shadowy "they" for this to be true. It can be purely the result of a dynamic in the system that results due to certain feedback loops and hierarchies in the organisation of media institutions. This is essentially the thesis of Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent" -- that the only media that gets put in front of you has been selected by a process which is emergent and not controlled by some "cabal" but nevertheless results in a form of, essentially, propaganda which supports the power structures of the system.
neaden 6y ago
I honestly am having trouble understanding what you are trying to say here, I think the reason you are encountering so much resistance isn't necessarily because of what you are trying to say, but how you are saying it.
Chris2048 6y ago
> in order to be taken seriously I must provide sources, backing, it is not enough to explain my thoughts cogently You must at least provide reasoning, for the thoughts to be cogent. Your assertions are vague - you allude to things without clarifying what you mean, and why you believe it to be so. > in order to be taken seriously I must... > I must show... > I must acquire... You must do theses things? According to who. again, assertion without explanation. Understand, your thoughts don't explain themselves!

seneca 6y ago

HN, for all of its claims of intellectualism, is pretty unforgiving to any thoughts that don't fit one of a couple of echo chamber themes. I hang around because I think it's important for people (including me) to hear other ideas, but you should expect to be downvoted.

silicon2401 6y ago
I've only been coming to this site for maybe 5 years now (not under this account in case people do the lame reddit thing of checking your account history at the drop of a hat), but I feel like even in that time things have become noticeably more echo-y here.
- minikites 6y ago
  Hacker News is just Reddit plus a thesaurus.
nomdep 6y ago
Some americans went insane after Trump won in 2016 and the media fed that insanity for harvesting clicks. As a reaction, the "with me or against me" mantra was increasingly strong for the last four and a half years. I hope people calm down again now that that its over.
Kaibeezy 6y ago
It takes long, hard work to accumulate the knowledge and experience to be able to consistently say things that matter. It’s impossible to fake, and an astute crowd will always spot it. The Luke-in-Yoda’s-hut scene pops to mind.
- perl4ever 6y ago
  I wonder how many people in this thread had heard of Georgette Heyer but not "The Luke-in-Yoda’s-hut scene". Even after looking up the script, I have no idea what you are saying.
  - Kaibeezy 6y ago
    The commenter above asked: "But how does one gather a reputation such that whatever I say will be read mindfully and not just dismissed right out when I start to make reasoning leaps all around? the most direct way is to simply repeat what other people with a reputation have said; to preach to the choir." Yoda challenged Luke by telling him he was too old to begin the training, and that a Jedi "craves not" things like adventure and excitement. People have varying degrees of awareness about how much work it is and how long it takes to gain meaningful knowledge and experience. They are impatient, they want shortcuts, they think "likes" are important, they give up. Luke says: "you want the impossible", but of course it's not impossible, just profoundly abstruse.
Chris2048 6y ago
Which thoughts? Are you talking about the liberal echo-chamber downvote squad, the americana/patriot downvote squad, or something else?
naringas 6y ago
> is pretty unforgiving to any thoughts that don't fit one of a couple of echo chamber themes. sounds better in ther converse: "it's pretty forgiving of thoughts that do go along the predilect tropes"

selimthegrim 6y ago

Man, you really hated Bridgerton huh

dudul 6y ago

Without providing sources or backing, it would be useful to be a bit more explicit. You could mention the myths that are being re-inforced, that would be interesting.

lucozade 6y ago

You alleged that Georgian romances are part of a conspiracy to control the future. That's a surprising allegation that you made no attempt to justify nor explain, cogent or otherwise. Under those circumstances, it's perfectly coherent for strangers to dismiss the allegation if it doesn't conform to their preconceived view. It is also perfectly coherent for strangers to agree with it if it does. Now, if you wish for strangers to come to agree with your world view then you'll have to make some effort to convince them. Whether or not you can be arsed to do that is, of course, up to you.

jcranmer 6y ago

> in order to be taken seriously I must provide sources, backing, it is not enough to explain my thoughts cogently. I must show other ideas that support what I say. I must acquire a reputation and then, only then, I can say whatever I want. No one here is actually asking for your sources, so far as I can see. The people who are taking umbrage at your comment are most likely (like me) those who do not see your explanation as cogent but instead an assertion that doesn't even fully explain what is asserting. You're promoting a conspiracy theory--a shadowy "They" who are conspiring to do something--without explaining what the conspiracy actually is. What are the myths being enforced? Why are "They" doing this? Who even is "They"? > But how does one gather a reputation such that whatever I say will be read mindfully and not just dismissed right out when I start to make reasoning leaps all around? the most direct way is to simply repeat what other people with a reputation have said; to preach to the choir. In my experience on HN, that reputation is gathered mostly by being seen to speak authoritatively on topics. The highest upvote comments I have gathered are generally when I can put together thorough, concise explanations quickly. It doesn't have to agree with the current zeitgeist, but you do generally want to provide stronger argumentation for your viewpoints in that situation.

kiliantics 6y ago
There doesn't need to be a shadowy "they" for this to be true. It can be purely the result of a dynamic in the system that results due to certain feedback loops and hierarchies in the organisation of media institutions. This is essentially the thesis of Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent" -- that the only media that gets put in front of you has been selected by a process which is emergent and not controlled by some "cabal" but nevertheless results in a form of, essentially, propaganda which supports the power structures of the system.

neaden 6y ago

I honestly am having trouble understanding what you are trying to say here, I think the reason you are encountering so much resistance isn't necessarily because of what you are trying to say, but how you are saying it.

Chris2048 6y ago

> in order to be taken seriously I must provide sources, backing, it is not enough to explain my thoughts cogently You must at least provide reasoning, for the thoughts to be cogent. Your assertions are vague - you allude to things without clarifying what you mean, and why you believe it to be so. > in order to be taken seriously I must... > I must show... > I must acquire... You must do theses things? According to who. again, assertion without explanation. Understand, your thoughts don't explain themselves!