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There is no split "terrible for users, great for some developers". Casual users do have issue with X; see this thread recently on HN: https://news.ycombinator.c

There is no split "terrible for users, great for some developers". Casual users do have issue with X; see this thread recently on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25970690 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25970690. Would you consider that normal for users to handle? Of course not. Casual users having no issue with X is a lie. The fact is, that some subsytems on Linux are pile of hacks piled upon something built on assumptions that are no longer true. X11 is one of such subsystems. It is a dead end. When you are stuck in the dead end, you can either back up and once you are out, continue in your ride, or keep being stuck in the dead end. Wayland is backing out of the dead end; yes, it is short-term, high intensity pain, when you are not going forward, and even have to go back for a while. Piling new hacks on top of X11 is trying how to continue going forward without backing out of that dead-end. You will be stuck in that place for a long time, and ultimately you will move nowhere. That is long-term, low-intensity pain. Some people do not take the long term view (or do want to avoid high-intensity pain), being stuck in a place works for them (and chronic low-intensity pain is fine to them). These two approaches still clash, it is this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTdUmlGxVo0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTdUmlGxVo0, all over again, 10 years later.

simion314 6y ago
I agree that Xorg has issues, I disagree that Wayland was the best solution. Creating a protocol that specifies a subset of the features and then taking mroe then 10 years to get decent implementations for the subsets and then still having no unique answer on how to do global keyboard shortcuts and that pathetic delay until we got some kind of screenshot and screen recording solution... If RH were actually competent would have had a roadmap and Xorg would be replaced with some Wayland implementation only when all X featues are ready. Until then RH can label it as Beta. I don't like how you propose this unfinished stuff is pushed on users so maybe someone would get frustrated enough and make RH job, like WTF RH has tons of money, they could fins competent people to implement the missing stuff 10 years ago, and while at it they could have fucking fixed GTK or maybe buy Qt and the dev team .

simion314 6y ago

I agree that Xorg has issues, I disagree that Wayland was the best solution. Creating a protocol that specifies a subset of the features and then taking mroe then 10 years to get decent implementations for the subsets and then still having no unique answer on how to do global keyboard shortcuts and that pathetic delay until we got some kind of screenshot and screen recording solution... If RH were actually competent would have had a roadmap and Xorg would be replaced with some Wayland implementation only when all X featues are ready. Until then RH can label it as Beta. I don't like how you propose this unfinished stuff is pushed on users so maybe someone would get frustrated enough and make RH job, like WTF RH has tons of money, they could fins competent people to implement the missing stuff 10 years ago, and while at it they could have fucking fixed GTK or maybe buy Qt and the dev team .