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For those wondering what the protests are about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Indian_agriculture_acts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Indian_agricultur

For those wondering what the protests are about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Indian_agriculture_acts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Indian_agriculture_acts In short, the bills aim to deregulate farming, which is good for the consumer, but a mixed bag for farmers, particularly those who are beneficiaries of current subsidies and competition restrictions.

Abhinav2000 6y ago
Its beneficial for farmers but not middle men, and unfortunately there is a huge propaganda to push back on it. The protests were highly unethical in a time where there is covid and congregating in such groups puts the whole country at risk. In any case, I hope its not true that they are asking twitter to remove content - free speech is free speech. Edit: Looks like Twitter went against a legal order, so they are the offending party here: The social media giant "cannot assume the role of (a) court and justify non-compliance," the government said today in a statement. "Twitter being an intermediary is obliged to obey the directions as per satisfaction of authorities as to which inflammatory content will arouse passion and impact public order. Twitter cannot sit as an appellate authority over the satisfaction of the authorities about its potential impact on derailing public order," the statement read.
- amachefe 6y ago
  Lol... Twitter has already showed that their free speech is not free speech in their platform. If they can censor the free speech of a Head of state, they should be ready to obey directives from a state
- ignoramous 6y ago
  The incumbent government is as totalitarian as it gets. There's no democracy left, let alone free speech. https://scroll.in/article/832961/finance-bill-in-one-stroke-the-indian-government-undermined-several-democratic-institutions https://scroll.in/article/832961/finance-bill-in-one-stroke-...
  - divs1210 6y ago
    > as totalitarian as it gets Either you don't know what you're talking about, or you're consciously lying. If this govt was "as totalitarian as it gets", we would be seeing Tiananmen Square kind of things happening. We would see gulags. Opposition parties would be banned, and all opposition leaders jailed / killed. India is a thriving democracy. It's not perfect, or even well functioning, but it is most certainly democratic.
    - ignoramous 6y ago
      Your definition of totalitarianism is weird. Let's check Wikipedia: > Totalitarian regimes are often characterized by extensive political repression, a complete lack of democracy, widespread personality cultism, absolute control over the economy, massive censorship, mass surveillance, limited freedom of movement (most notably freedom to leave the country) and widespread use of state terrorism. Other aspects of a totalitarian regime include the use of concentration camps, repressive secret police, religious persecution or state atheism, the common practice of executions, fraudulent elections (if they take place), possible possession of weapons of mass destruction and potentially state-sponsored mass murder and genocides. Historian Robert Conquest describes a totalitarian state as one which recognizes no limit on its authority in any sphere of public or private life and it extends that authority to whatever length is feasible. Yep, the incumbent Indian government sounds, looks, feels, acts like totalitarian to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism
- webmobdev 6y ago
  I have different opinion on both the issues you raised: - The new farm bills is absolutely a disaster for indian agriculture as it it tilts the balance of negotiating power completely in favour of the corporates by dergulating the marketplace and making the laws on corporate farming in favour of the corporates. - In a democratic country, even with an undemocratic government in power like the current one, social media platforms (especially foreign ones), should comply with indian rules and laws.
- kranner 6y ago
  > Its beneficial for farmers but not middle men, and unfortunately there is a huge propaganda to push back on it. The protests were highly unethical in a time where there is covid and congregating in such groups puts the whole country at risk. It is decidedly not beneficial for farmers with small land holdings, and most farmers in India are such farmers. The new laws remove legal protection when companies fail to honour farming contracts; the only option now is to approach the Sub-Divisional Magistrates for arbitration, a class of government official that is known primarily for being corrupt. The new laws also remove stockholding limits for private companies (except in the event of an official famine, etc). Incidentally new private godowns came up everywhere months before the laws were passed, almost as if these companies could predict the future. If you want to talk about unethical acts, the laws were steamrolled through parliament. It was beyond farcical. Have a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5s4quyO2W0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5s4quyO2W0 And propaganda? The Centre spent a fortune on propaganda justifying the new laws. It even showed pictures of "farmers" said to be in support of the new laws who now claim their pictures were used without their consent. Far from being in favour of the bills, they are part of the protests against them. Here: https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/protesting-farmer-filmmaker-made-posterboy-for-farm-laws-sends-legal-notice-to-bjp-1752505-2020-12-23 https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/protesting-farmer-film... The Centre claims the laws will give farmers the opportunity to shop around for a better price. The reality is that most Indian farmers are in debt, and can barely afford to transport their produce to the nearest wholesale markets. They can't afford multiple trips. They can't afford to go to a neighbouring state. They have no storage facilities. Their goods are highly perishable. They have to take the price traders will offer, and collusion among traders is extremely common. This is the kind of fortune farmers can expect to make selling to private traders: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bareilly/angry-farmer-dumps-10-quintals-of-cauliflower-on-road-after-traders-pay-re-1-per-kg-for-produce/articleshow/80654316.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bareilly/angry-farm... All those farmers who are protesting are not doing it out of ideological opposition to the Modi government. They have mostly refused to allow any political party to become part of the protests. They are protesting because they are aware that these laws will result in the government phasing out existing government-run wholesale markets, and then it will be curtains for them. Edit: now the Government has barricaded in the protestors, cut off their water and food, cut off their Internet and barred any journalists from meeting them.
phillc73 6y ago
The benefits of agricultural deregulation is not entirely clear cut. I quite closely followed the deregulation of the Australian dairy industry (had worked in the industry and still with friends who do) and the outcome 20 years later has not been entirely beneficial for farmers and one might even say only beneficial for the supermarkets. Maybe there's a direct consumer benefit initially through lower prices, but then if the volume of milk production drops, the prices will then likely increase due to lack of supply. Some articles: What Has Happened to Australian Milk Since Deregulation?: https://www.themilkhouse.org/a-look-back-at-australian-deregulation-2/ https://www.themilkhouse.org/a-look-back-at-australian-dereg... The summary of this one is that Australian milk production and exports have stagnated rather than grown. A Look Back at Australian Deregulation: https://www.themilkhouse.org/a-look-back-at-australian-deregulation-2/ https://www.themilkhouse.org/a-look-back-at-australian-dereg... This one claims a 60% reduction of dairy farmers in some regions. 20 years after dairy deregulation, Australia faces lowest level of milk production in decades: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYanQoLKXOA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYanQoLKXOA Push for milk levy to right deregulation wrongs: https://www.farmonline.com.au/story/6749486/push-for-milk-levy-to-right-deregulation-wrongs/ https://www.farmonline.com.au/story/6749486/push-for-milk-le... "What nobody foresaw in the lead-up to deregulation was $1-a-litre supermarket milk."
- roenxi 6y ago
  There are days when stern-faced Austarlian politicians sternly caution the supermarket CEOs that their absurdly low milk prices are only just in the realm of the tolerable. It's been years since I last watched one - the theatre has been going on since what, 2011? 2010? Damn the capitalists and their cheap milk. I find it impressive when they maintain character all the way through the committee hearings. Nobody is going to do anything about very cheap milk.
- webmobdev 6y ago
  You are absolutely right. Deregulation and corporate farming is the first step to allow corporates to get a foothold in the agri industry and then slowly takeover and control it. In both the US and Europe, contract farming has seen the consolidation of farms under few corporates. - 1% of farms operate 70% of world's farmland: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/24/farmland-inequality-is-rising-around-the-world-finds-report https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/24/farmland... - Contract farming as a means of ushering in corporatisation in agriculture: https://frontline.thehindu.com/the-nation/fast-forward-to-corporatisation/article32880281.ece https://frontline.thehindu.com/the-nation/fast-forward-to-co...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
webmobdev 6y ago
A much better resource is at - https://old.reddit.com/r/india/comments/k1hfyi/farm_bills_2020_protest/ https://old.reddit.com/r/india/comments/k1hfyi/farm_bills_20... > In short, the bills aim to deregulate farming, which is good for the consumer, Not necessarily. Corporates are not known to be benevolent and will act like cartels to dictate the market price. This bill will endanger India's food security for the poor as deregulation means that corporates will now increasingly dictate the price. Farmers will suffer because this bill is a huge push to corporatise agriculture through contract farming, in the guise of "reforms". Repeating what I said elsewhere - In both the US and Europe, contract farming has seen the consolidation of farms under few corporates. Many indian political parties understandably do not want that to happen in india too. - 1% of farms operate 70% of world's farmland: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/24/farmland https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/24/farmland - Contract farming as a means of ushering in corporatisation in agriculture: https://frontline.thehindu.com/the-nation/fast-forward-to-corporatisation/article32880281.ece https://frontline.thehindu.com/the-nation/fast-forward-to-co... The new farm bills have now opened the gateway to corporates to take over indian farmlands, which will in time, invariably allow foreign corporates to take over them and control India's food security.
thunderbong 6y ago
From the Wikipedia article - >> Lack of statutory support in the bills for the MSP is a major point of concern, especially for farmers from Punjab and Haryana, where 65% of wheat (2019) is procured at MSP by the Food Corporation of India and state agencies.[30] The deregulation of the sugar industry in 1998, which paved the way for private establishments, did not result in a significant improvement in farmers' productivity or incomes. There are other points of contention per the article as well.

Abhinav2000 6y ago

Its beneficial for farmers but not middle men, and unfortunately there is a huge propaganda to push back on it. The protests were highly unethical in a time where there is covid and congregating in such groups puts the whole country at risk. In any case, I hope its not true that they are asking twitter to remove content - free speech is free speech. Edit: Looks like Twitter went against a legal order, so they are the offending party here: The social media giant "cannot assume the role of (a) court and justify non-compliance," the government said today in a statement. "Twitter being an intermediary is obliged to obey the directions as per satisfaction of authorities as to which inflammatory content will arouse passion and impact public order. Twitter cannot sit as an appellate authority over the satisfaction of the authorities about its potential impact on derailing public order," the statement read.

amachefe 6y ago
Lol... Twitter has already showed that their free speech is not free speech in their platform. If they can censor the free speech of a Head of state, they should be ready to obey directives from a state
ignoramous 6y ago
The incumbent government is as totalitarian as it gets. There's no democracy left, let alone free speech. https://scroll.in/article/832961/finance-bill-in-one-stroke-the-indian-government-undermined-several-democratic-institutions https://scroll.in/article/832961/finance-bill-in-one-stroke-...
- divs1210 6y ago
  > as totalitarian as it gets Either you don't know what you're talking about, or you're consciously lying. If this govt was "as totalitarian as it gets", we would be seeing Tiananmen Square kind of things happening. We would see gulags. Opposition parties would be banned, and all opposition leaders jailed / killed. India is a thriving democracy. It's not perfect, or even well functioning, but it is most certainly democratic.
  - ignoramous 6y ago
    Your definition of totalitarianism is weird. Let's check Wikipedia: > Totalitarian regimes are often characterized by extensive political repression, a complete lack of democracy, widespread personality cultism, absolute control over the economy, massive censorship, mass surveillance, limited freedom of movement (most notably freedom to leave the country) and widespread use of state terrorism. Other aspects of a totalitarian regime include the use of concentration camps, repressive secret police, religious persecution or state atheism, the common practice of executions, fraudulent elections (if they take place), possible possession of weapons of mass destruction and potentially state-sponsored mass murder and genocides. Historian Robert Conquest describes a totalitarian state as one which recognizes no limit on its authority in any sphere of public or private life and it extends that authority to whatever length is feasible. Yep, the incumbent Indian government sounds, looks, feels, acts like totalitarian to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism
webmobdev 6y ago
I have different opinion on both the issues you raised: - The new farm bills is absolutely a disaster for indian agriculture as it it tilts the balance of negotiating power completely in favour of the corporates by dergulating the marketplace and making the laws on corporate farming in favour of the corporates. - In a democratic country, even with an undemocratic government in power like the current one, social media platforms (especially foreign ones), should comply with indian rules and laws.
kranner 6y ago
> Its beneficial for farmers but not middle men, and unfortunately there is a huge propaganda to push back on it. The protests were highly unethical in a time where there is covid and congregating in such groups puts the whole country at risk. It is decidedly not beneficial for farmers with small land holdings, and most farmers in India are such farmers. The new laws remove legal protection when companies fail to honour farming contracts; the only option now is to approach the Sub-Divisional Magistrates for arbitration, a class of government official that is known primarily for being corrupt. The new laws also remove stockholding limits for private companies (except in the event of an official famine, etc). Incidentally new private godowns came up everywhere months before the laws were passed, almost as if these companies could predict the future. If you want to talk about unethical acts, the laws were steamrolled through parliament. It was beyond farcical. Have a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5s4quyO2W0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5s4quyO2W0 And propaganda? The Centre spent a fortune on propaganda justifying the new laws. It even showed pictures of "farmers" said to be in support of the new laws who now claim their pictures were used without their consent. Far from being in favour of the bills, they are part of the protests against them. Here: https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/protesting-farmer-filmmaker-made-posterboy-for-farm-laws-sends-legal-notice-to-bjp-1752505-2020-12-23 https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/protesting-farmer-film... The Centre claims the laws will give farmers the opportunity to shop around for a better price. The reality is that most Indian farmers are in debt, and can barely afford to transport their produce to the nearest wholesale markets. They can't afford multiple trips. They can't afford to go to a neighbouring state. They have no storage facilities. Their goods are highly perishable. They have to take the price traders will offer, and collusion among traders is extremely common. This is the kind of fortune farmers can expect to make selling to private traders: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bareilly/angry-farmer-dumps-10-quintals-of-cauliflower-on-road-after-traders-pay-re-1-per-kg-for-produce/articleshow/80654316.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bareilly/angry-farm... All those farmers who are protesting are not doing it out of ideological opposition to the Modi government. They have mostly refused to allow any political party to become part of the protests. They are protesting because they are aware that these laws will result in the government phasing out existing government-run wholesale markets, and then it will be curtains for them. Edit: now the Government has barricaded in the protestors, cut off their water and food, cut off their Internet and barred any journalists from meeting them.

phillc73 6y ago

The benefits of agricultural deregulation is not entirely clear cut. I quite closely followed the deregulation of the Australian dairy industry (had worked in the industry and still with friends who do) and the outcome 20 years later has not been entirely beneficial for farmers and one might even say only beneficial for the supermarkets. Maybe there's a direct consumer benefit initially through lower prices, but then if the volume of milk production drops, the prices will then likely increase due to lack of supply. Some articles: What Has Happened to Australian Milk Since Deregulation?: https://www.themilkhouse.org/a-look-back-at-australian-deregulation-2/ https://www.themilkhouse.org/a-look-back-at-australian-dereg... The summary of this one is that Australian milk production and exports have stagnated rather than grown. A Look Back at Australian Deregulation: https://www.themilkhouse.org/a-look-back-at-australian-deregulation-2/ https://www.themilkhouse.org/a-look-back-at-australian-dereg... This one claims a 60% reduction of dairy farmers in some regions. 20 years after dairy deregulation, Australia faces lowest level of milk production in decades: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYanQoLKXOA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYanQoLKXOA Push for milk levy to right deregulation wrongs: https://www.farmonline.com.au/story/6749486/push-for-milk-levy-to-right-deregulation-wrongs/ https://www.farmonline.com.au/story/6749486/push-for-milk-le... "What nobody foresaw in the lead-up to deregulation was $1-a-litre supermarket milk."

roenxi 6y ago
There are days when stern-faced Austarlian politicians sternly caution the supermarket CEOs that their absurdly low milk prices are only just in the realm of the tolerable. It's been years since I last watched one - the theatre has been going on since what, 2011? 2010? Damn the capitalists and their cheap milk. I find it impressive when they maintain character all the way through the committee hearings. Nobody is going to do anything about very cheap milk.
webmobdev 6y ago
You are absolutely right. Deregulation and corporate farming is the first step to allow corporates to get a foothold in the agri industry and then slowly takeover and control it. In both the US and Europe, contract farming has seen the consolidation of farms under few corporates. - 1% of farms operate 70% of world's farmland: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/24/farmland-inequality-is-rising-around-the-world-finds-report https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/24/farmland... - Contract farming as a means of ushering in corporatisation in agriculture: https://frontline.thehindu.com/the-nation/fast-forward-to-corporatisation/article32880281.ece https://frontline.thehindu.com/the-nation/fast-forward-to-co...

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

webmobdev 6y ago

A much better resource is at - https://old.reddit.com/r/india/comments/k1hfyi/farm_bills_2020_protest/ https://old.reddit.com/r/india/comments/k1hfyi/farm_bills_20... > In short, the bills aim to deregulate farming, which is good for the consumer, Not necessarily. Corporates are not known to be benevolent and will act like cartels to dictate the market price. This bill will endanger India's food security for the poor as deregulation means that corporates will now increasingly dictate the price. Farmers will suffer because this bill is a huge push to corporatise agriculture through contract farming, in the guise of "reforms". Repeating what I said elsewhere - In both the US and Europe, contract farming has seen the consolidation of farms under few corporates. Many indian political parties understandably do not want that to happen in india too. - 1% of farms operate 70% of world's farmland: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/24/farmland https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/24/farmland - Contract farming as a means of ushering in corporatisation in agriculture: https://frontline.thehindu.com/the-nation/fast-forward-to-corporatisation/article32880281.ece https://frontline.thehindu.com/the-nation/fast-forward-to-co... The new farm bills have now opened the gateway to corporates to take over indian farmlands, which will in time, invariably allow foreign corporates to take over them and control India's food security.

thunderbong 6y ago

From the Wikipedia article - >> Lack of statutory support in the bills for the MSP is a major point of concern, especially for farmers from Punjab and Haryana, where 65% of wheat (2019) is procured at MSP by the Food Corporation of India and state agencies.[30] The deregulation of the sugar industry in 1998, which paved the way for private establishments, did not result in a significant improvement in farmers' productivity or incomes. There are other points of contention per the article as well.