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"As Amazon became large, we decided to use our scale and scope to lead on important social issues". A bold claim for a company widely known to exploit and unde

"As Amazon became large, we decided to use our scale and scope to lead on important social issues". A bold claim for a company widely known to exploit and underpay workers in distribution warehouses.

Jamieee 6y ago
And their anti-union movements. https://www.doitwithoutdues.com/ https://www.doitwithoutdues.com/
wiz21c 6y ago
your comment deserve 1000 votes. The whole message from Bezos is so much about what the management team has done and so few about the people who actually move boxes around. I also wonder what's the overall CO2 footprint of Amazon and what's their record about recycling, repairing, etc. I know they propose some tools to help for that and they may even be more efficient than others, but as a company with "lead on social issues", it needs to have more than "a lead", it needs to question its very own existence. So the mail of Bezos, is, in my view, not ambitious at all.
scotty79 6y ago
When you praise the software your team wrote you don't pay respects to how hard transistors work to make the whole thing possible. Lowest workers for Jeff are just cogs in the machine.
radu_floricica 6y ago
I have some karma to burn, so let's do this again. Underpay compared to what? There has to be some comparison here. You can't say "underpay" and leave it at that. You might try and weasel and say "underpay compared to a decent living wage". Well, I have news for you - even that's relative. A fair comparison would be "underpay compared to the rest of the warehouse industry". Which begs the question - why do people go work for Amazon, then? Are they trapped by not being able to leave the small towns where Amazon hires? Doesn't sound likely. Could it be that their overall conditions are more or less on par, or quite probably somewhat better than the rest of the industry? I'm going to call your bullshit and say what I think directly: Amazon is a cheap target for young idealists simply because it's visible, it's fashionable to attack, makes a lot of money overall, and most people attacking it have no idea what's a good pay for that kind of work because they never did that kind of work.
- giomasce 6y ago
  Quite agree that Amazon is a cheap target: they do very bad things and they are able to do them at scale; one might argue even in a monopoly situation. Doesn't make stuff fairer. Rest assured it's not my only target, if that's what troubles you. Amazon's choice to exploit workers might very well be an industry standard, but this doesn't make it a choice any less: Amazon boasts about leading on important social issues, but that's the real bullshit. They just do as the others, no virtue at all. Being in the strong position, they might have the opportunity to make the industry fairer, but they willingly decided not even to try. I like how in your world megacorp automatically get the benefit of doubt, while people pissing in their pants because they cannot go to the bathroom are "relatively" fine.
- niek_pas 6y ago
  How about "underpay relative to the value they produce"?
  - hntrader 6y ago
    That's true for every commercial transaction including every labor market transaction, and it's the reason why voluntary transactions are positive sum to both parties (ignoring the negative externalities to uninvolved third parties, and edge cases like a diminished ability to make an informed decision such as with a gambling addiction) You paid $1000 for an iPhone because you thought the subjective value that it brings you is worth $1500. If Apple was asking you for $1501, you wouldn't make the purchase. Google hired you as a dev for $300k because they think you bring more value to the table than $300k. If you were asking for more than what your value is to them, then they wouldn't hire you. Same for every other hiring arrangement including the ones Amazon makes and the ones you make in your personal life (such as if you hire a cleaner, book an uber, etc)
  - bhupy 6y ago
    They produce the same value as a Sears warehouse worker, or a Circuit City warehouse worker. The reason that Amazon is successful, but Sears and Circuit City aren’t isn’t because of the warehouse workers.
  - 6y ago

"As Amazon became large, we decided to use our scale and scope to lead on important social issues". A bold claim for a company widely known to exploit and underpay workers in distribution warehouses.

Jamieee 6y ago

And their anti-union movements. https://www.doitwithoutdues.com/ https://www.doitwithoutdues.com/

wiz21c 6y ago

your comment deserve 1000 votes. The whole message from Bezos is so much about what the management team has done and so few about the people who actually move boxes around. I also wonder what's the overall CO2 footprint of Amazon and what's their record about recycling, repairing, etc. I know they propose some tools to help for that and they may even be more efficient than others, but as a company with "lead on social issues", it needs to have more than "a lead", it needs to question its very own existence. So the mail of Bezos, is, in my view, not ambitious at all.

scotty79 6y ago

When you praise the software your team wrote you don't pay respects to how hard transistors work to make the whole thing possible. Lowest workers for Jeff are just cogs in the machine.

radu_floricica 6y ago

I have some karma to burn, so let's do this again. Underpay compared to what? There has to be some comparison here. You can't say "underpay" and leave it at that. You might try and weasel and say "underpay compared to a decent living wage". Well, I have news for you - even that's relative. A fair comparison would be "underpay compared to the rest of the warehouse industry". Which begs the question - why do people go work for Amazon, then? Are they trapped by not being able to leave the small towns where Amazon hires? Doesn't sound likely. Could it be that their overall conditions are more or less on par, or quite probably somewhat better than the rest of the industry? I'm going to call your bullshit and say what I think directly: Amazon is a cheap target for young idealists simply because it's visible, it's fashionable to attack, makes a lot of money overall, and most people attacking it have no idea what's a good pay for that kind of work because they never did that kind of work.

giomasce 6y ago
Quite agree that Amazon is a cheap target: they do very bad things and they are able to do them at scale; one might argue even in a monopoly situation. Doesn't make stuff fairer. Rest assured it's not my only target, if that's what troubles you. Amazon's choice to exploit workers might very well be an industry standard, but this doesn't make it a choice any less: Amazon boasts about leading on important social issues, but that's the real bullshit. They just do as the others, no virtue at all. Being in the strong position, they might have the opportunity to make the industry fairer, but they willingly decided not even to try. I like how in your world megacorp automatically get the benefit of doubt, while people pissing in their pants because they cannot go to the bathroom are "relatively" fine.
niek_pas 6y ago
How about "underpay relative to the value they produce"?
- hntrader 6y ago
  That's true for every commercial transaction including every labor market transaction, and it's the reason why voluntary transactions are positive sum to both parties (ignoring the negative externalities to uninvolved third parties, and edge cases like a diminished ability to make an informed decision such as with a gambling addiction) You paid $1000 for an iPhone because you thought the subjective value that it brings you is worth $1500. If Apple was asking you for $1501, you wouldn't make the purchase. Google hired you as a dev for $300k because they think you bring more value to the table than $300k. If you were asking for more than what your value is to them, then they wouldn't hire you. Same for every other hiring arrangement including the ones Amazon makes and the ones you make in your personal life (such as if you hire a cleaner, book an uber, etc)
- bhupy 6y ago
  They produce the same value as a Sears warehouse worker, or a Circuit City warehouse worker. The reason that Amazon is successful, but Sears and Circuit City aren’t isn’t because of the warehouse workers.
- 6y ago